Question: Eastern Front, 1943

Thanks! I think it’s the romantic nature of the war. All the nationalism that was going on, the style of the 40’s and most importantly, it was the last war where a mans skill took precidence over technology. It was the last war of real “dogfighting.” We saw bravery in World War 2 and self sacrafice on all sides that inspires us. Every nation was united. There were no “anti-war” protests. There were some of those feelings going around but they weren’t popular.

Instead of “Why are we in this war?” the attitude seemed to be what can I do to help? As members of every social class rose to help the war effort, the great depression died and economies flourished in Europe and the US. In Europe a poor man could serve his country and become widely respected and finally feed his family.

Hope was alive in World War 2. Even in the most desperate times of the war, hope and perserverance prevailed. We will never see the epic battles that took place in that time ever again. Thousands of planes at war in the sky. Hundreds of thousands of men doing battle on the field in close proximity.

That era is very romantic to me. I would love to have served on B-17F Flying Fortress, firing those 50’ cals at 25,000 feet with no fighter escort. The comradery, and bravery of those men. Even if I died, bleeding to death on the floor of a B-17F as my crew held me as we neared the English coast with 2 engines burning; no one would bail out just because they wanted me to have a chance. That would be one of the most honorable deaths I could ever imagine. You can see how romantic so many of those stories are. I read stories from that war that seem like they are straight out of a fiction book but they are not. Man I could go on forever with amazing stories but I won’t. I get caught up writing about it.

I strongly recommend books by Martin Caiden.

That quote moves me too man. Wow.

Obergruppen fuhrer,

I enjoy reading your posts.  You have a very detailed knowledge of the war, a very articulate vocabulary and the passion to do it all justice.

You seemed to have awakened my passion for WWII I also had in high school but lost when I graduated and became occupied with other things.

Again thank you for your posts,

LT

@LT04:

Obergruppen fuhrer,

I enjoy reading your posts.  You have a very detailed knowledge of the war, a very articulate vocabulary and the passion to do it all justice.

You seemed to have awakened my passion for WWII I also had in high school but lost when I graduated and became occupied with other things.

Again thank you for your posts,

LT

Wow. That’s one of the biggest compliments to me. Thank you very much. I’ve studied the war since I was 6. I’m 29 now and I’ve only begun to seriously disect details within the past 5 years. My primary knowledge lies in especially in the Luftwaff & The 3rd Reich in every aspect. Also I have extensive knowledge in the Fock Wulf 190 A-1 - A-5, The Messerschmitt 109 E-4 & G and the B-17 flying fortress F and G. I read a 700 page book on the flying fortress by Marin Caiden last summer and it was amazing once you get through all the technical specs and get into the amazing stories.

I’m SO happy to hear that I’ve ignited your passion again. That makes me feel wonderful because I know how wonderful it feels to be passionate about something. It makes life worth living even when things are horrible. Perhaps that’s how people felt about the war back then and that’s what got them through? Passion.

Thanks again for your gracious compliment!

@Obergruppenfuhrer:

Thanks! I think it’s the romantic nature of the war.

I have read a lot of the books by Martin Caiden, and have most of them I think, including the ones on the bombing of Hamburg and the firebomb raid on Tokyo.  Have you read them?  Or the account in the Ragged and Rugged Warriors on the Battle of the Bismarck Sea?  Or better yet, some of the PT boats sailors accounts of the Bismarck Sea?  Where they are getting sick to their stomachs at shooting Japaneses soldiers in the water, and what the explosion of a depth charge set shallow did to a human body?  Or the account in Bob Johnson’s book, Thunderbolt, where he cold-bloodedly shot a German pilot who was trying to bail out of his burning plane?  Have you read anything on Tarawa, where the Marines waded in waist-deep water for a half a mile or so, while under murderous Japanese automatic weapons fire?  Tarawa, where the following poem first appeared.

“And when he gets to Heaven,
To St. Peter he will tell,
One more Marine reporting,
I’ve served my time in Hell!”

Any one who regards war as romantic, has an extremely adolescent view of war, and needs to do a lot more reading about war.  War in not in the least romantic.  It is a dirty nasty business, filled with enormous amounts of terror and unpleasantness, that at the same time can bring out the best and the worst in mankind, a mixture of incredible and selfless courage and unbelieveable beastality and brutality.

@timerover51:

@Obergruppenfuhrer:

Thanks! I think it’s the romantic nature of the war.

Any one who regards war as romantic, has an extremely adolescent view of war, and needs to do a lot more reading about war.  War in not in the least romantic.

I think your service makes you a little sensitive on the subject sir, with all due respect. I have not read the books you mentioned about the South Pacific but I know of it’s horror. I have read Bob Johnsons book. He didn’t kill that pilot in “cold blood”. He did it becuase the pilot was so highly skilled in the dog fight, even against Robert Johnsons superior plane. Bob knew that once that pilot hit the ground with his chute open, he would be back in the air, killing pilots that weren’t as good as Bob.

Surely you can even see the logic in that. It did make me sad to read that. War is a horror that I can only imagine with sick stomach, having not been in one. I am very “adolescent” in the manner I write, feel and describe things that I find beauty in.

I find beauty in courage and self sacrafice. You’ve read plenty of those accounts in his books I’m sure. That is romantic to me. Self Sacrafice and courage in the most ugly situation the world could give you. (I don’t think the same about suicide bombers or even Kamakazi pilots) I do find courage in a fock wulf ramming a B-17 when he’s out of ammunition or damaged and would rather give his life than see those bombs fall on his home towns killing many more people than him and the crew of that bomber.

Many people in this forum find an agreement with me on this subject. For you, it must be something you either don’t agree with or hits far too close to home. I could understand that. I haven’t served my country. You have.

You don’t strike me as the poet, desperate romantic type. Rather, a disciplined man with wisdom and experience. I could be wrong. Well, as much as you may dislike types like me who search desperately for shreds of beauty among horrors, it’s simply a matter of perspective. I think the atrocities of the war are sickening as I’m sure you do. I’m a creative writer who tries to see a few beautiful trees in a forest full of dead ones. Perhaps you just see all the dead ones.

Regardless; I respect your opinions and facts you bring to these discussions. I’d apprectiate it if you would stop pulling rank and trying to belittle a young man like myself who has nothing but respect for people that serve our country.

It is a dirty nasty business, filled with enormous amounts of terror and unpleasantness, that at the same time can bring out the best and the worst in mankind…

You may be talking about Romance here and not just warfare.

Not romance. “Romantizing a period of time” is what I reffer to. It happens all the time. Just like some “romantize” the revolutionary times in the 60’s.

But I’m using illustrations more and more like a creative writer here (which I am) and less like a stone cold Killer or historian.

So lets just get back to business as usual shall we? My Reich armor can pop Shermans like they were balloons.

–-Yeah. I’m now considering myself a Nashorn ace. I don’t recall losing a single battle yet where I had that vehicle. I love that thing. A stone cold, calculated tank obliterator. You just have to keep it safe on the board becuase of it’s weak defense. With it’s ability to ignore one hex of cover, it’s usually not hard to keep that thing in an awesome sniper postion and it’s got the speed to fall back if necessary. Plus – my god, the range alone on that wepon! I love this game.