caucuses. Japan can’t hit karelia with you (in any normal game anyway :-D )
Yea, but Japan can hit Caucasus while Germany’s stacking Archangelsk forcing Russia into a split defense system.
karelia is good in the early game because it stops the allies from getting a foothold in europe. later when the atlantic shipping is worked out UK and USA can just drop 8-10 suicide units each into your karelia stack and there is nothing for Rus to do but clean up the rest with the arm they’ve been saving up.
A G1 Karelia stack is a nice open. I have had pretty good success in games where I started that way as the Axis.
@ncscswitch:
A G1 Karelia stack is a nice open. I have had pretty good success in games where I started that way as the Axis.
A good reason that a Russia 1 buy of 3 tanks, 3 inf can be a good one.
Lucky for Germany Russia goes first so they can have a good idea where Russia wants to go before their first move.
@Crazy:
:roll:
On G1, it has to be Karilia and the Ukraine.
If the Ukraine was not attacked, or survived the R1 turn, and it is possible to throw enough units to have a shot at taking the Caucuses, then I would seriously consider doing it.
First of all, If the Caucuses are lost to the Russians on G1 then even when they get it back on R2, and the should, it will not be a place for them to build units in for that turn. I thought that when you regain control of an IC that you owned at the beginning of the game you could produce immediately??? Secondly, every turn that the Russians spend retaking their original territories back, is a turn further away from German held territories. Whgich means more income for germany. Sure the losses will be high, but I’m building mostly infantry anyway, and most likely more than the russians and UK combined.Nope. You must hold an IC at the beginning of your turn in order to build units there so you can not recapture an IC and build there in the same turn. However, if an ally recaptures it for you, then you can build there because it’s yours at the start of your turn.
Whoa! Maybe Brian did win…
Axis, thread title is “G1 input” and in it seems to me that in G1 also you go for Karelia.
Generally, also I prefer to go for Karelia, Belorussia and Ukraine, regrouping panzers and infantries in EE. When I go for Caucasus I try to take and hold it in order to buy units there.
However if in R1 Russia had bad dice and is possible to take Caucasus and start to trade it conveniently it could be a viable solution.
Personally I think that advancing in Russia without the Japanese support is premature and can be done only if Russia is weak and Allies are not supporting her closely.
Yes Romulus. Thank you for reminding me what the title of the thread was. My problem was that i got caught up in responding to the content of his post. It seemed to me he was referring to a long term route to moscow question. I mean, you can’t even hit Caucus G1 can you? Regardless of the thread title, the OP wanted to know if you should put pressure on moscow thru ARCH or CAUCUS. We might even being saying the same thing, where I like holding Karelia early as a defensive move. But wehn i want to put pressure on Moscow, i take Caucus usually.
As either Axis player, I’ll generally take Caucasus whenever I can get it, as long as I’m not sacrificing too much to do so. If it’s a pretty equal trade (German or Japanese stack for Russian stack), then go go go!
Yes. This must be a given. If you can get caucus without losing much heavy equipment, do it. It is what I meant by I dont trade caucus, unless it is poorly defended.
But you CAN hit Caucasus on Germany 1. Just not “usually” hehe.
Caucuses can indeed be hit G1, and sometimes with REALLY GOOD odds for a German win.
TRN plus TRN Bid in SZ14 get 4 units, plus a BB shot, plus the Ukraine forces, plus FIGs and BOM, plus EE and BAL ARM… The odds get pretty sweet pretty fast for Germany.
The problem is the MULTIPLE counters that Germany will face: UK, USA and USSR…
And the fact that Germany has almost no land forces left in Central Europe after that initial grab.
Advantage Russia in most cases from a G1 Caucuses grab
(the exception is when you can walk in almost free… especially if you get to SBR it for free before taking it, as in when some folks virtually abandon Caucuses on R1 and pull their AA out…)
Axis, thread title is “G1 input” and in it seems to me that in G1 also you go for Karelia.
Generally, also I prefer to go for Karelia, Belorussia and Ukraine, regrouping panzers and infantries in EE. When I go for Caucasus I try to take and hold it in order to buy units there.
However if in R1 Russia had bad dice and is possible to take Caucasus and start to trade it conveniently it could be a viable solution.
Personally I think that advancing in Russia without the Japanese support is premature and can be done only if Russia is weak and Allies are not supporting her closely.Yes Romulus. Thank you for reminding me what the title of the thread was. My problem was that i got caught up in responding to the content of his post. It seemed to me he was referring to a long term route to moscow question. I mean, you can’t even hit Caucus G1 can you? Regardless of the thread title, the OP wanted to know if you should put pressure on moscow thru ARCH or CAUCUS. We might even being saying the same thing, where I like holding Karelia early as a defensive move. But wehn i want to put pressure on Moscow, i take Caucus usually.
Axis, I agree with your strategic approach.
In fact hitting Caucasus in G1 can be done only in two ways. Preparing this move, as Switch said, adding a bid TRN to the Med Fleet or exploiting the situations in wich Russian player abandon Caucasus.
The first option, however, I dislike because, as Switch noted, leave German opened to many counters, and do not allows for gains in Africa.
If Russia leave Caucasus it is possible for Germany to trade it every turn starting from G1, that may be very good for German income.
So taking Caucasus in G1 may be done only in particular cases and it is not always advantageous to do.
Going on in the game also I, like you, prefer to increase pressure on Russia taking and holding Caucasus in order to build units there.
If you can get it for a 1 INF walk in, TAKE IT! If you can SBR it for free DO SO.
Other than that, you better think long and hard about a G1 strike on Caucuses…
I generally favor African expansion, so I’m pretty conservative early on against Russia when I’m playing as Germany. I’ll stack Karelia sometimes, but I’m as apt to simply stack EEU, prepare for a later push, and wait for Russia to do something stupid.
Also, as Switch said, I would not enter Caucausus with ground units unless I can take it with 1 Inf
…recall that in the real war, Germany was well established in Stalingrad, but eventually lost the battle, and never recovered.
It can work just the same way in this game. It’s no fun playing as the Axis when the game is all but decided before Round 2 is even over.
I actually prefer when Russia stacks W. Russia up on Russia one Allowing Germany to eliminate the entire Russian army on Germany 1. I’ll even let Egypt survive in that case if I have too because Russia is now virtually defenseless. (2 Fighters + their builds and some extra infantry.)
The Karelia stack on G1 is a pain for allies. A true pain :oops:
The Karelia stack on G1 is a pain for allies. A true pain :oops:
I don’t really find it much of a pain. Inconvenient for a turn, yes, but honestly, the German stack on Karelia is very hard to maintain for Germany. Especially if Russia stacks Ukraine with a “motivated Reconnaissance team” (aka a large stack of 13+ infantry and 5 or 6 tanks.)
This alone will force Germany to pull down from Karelia to E. Europe to stop the Russian advance allowing England to liberate Karelia or take Norway.
OR
Russia can have a nice stack in W. Russia with plenty to destroy the Germans in Karelia with a strafe making life really tough on the Germans.
In both cases, one really needs to be set up for it with Russia on Russia 1 so you can do it on Russia 2. Which is another reason I don’t advocate the Ukraine attack on Russia 1 anymore, but rather W. Russia only or W. Russia and Belorussia. (hitting Belorussia basically ends Germany’s aspirations of stacking Karelia, hitting W. Russia conserves your forces in a nice large stack forcing Germany to commit an all out attack or be conservative itself.)
:-o
An R1 Karilia stack! I’ve never seen an R1 Karilia stack that I couldn’t smash to smitherines. What utter folly!
@Crazy:
:-o
An R1 Karilia stack! I’ve never seen an R1 Karilia stack that I couldn’t smash to smitherines. What utter folly!
Yea? Who said a d@mn thing about a Karelia stack with Russia on Russia 1?
I said that Russia can be really well set up to demolish any stack Germany puts in Karelia on Round 1 if Russia just plans for it on their Round 1 attacks.
Very easy to have 9 or 10 infantry, 2 artillery and 4 armor in W. Russia with 8 Infantry, 3 armor, 2 fighters in Russia itself. There’s not a blasted thing Germany can stack in Karelia that will withstand 9 or 10 infantry, 2 artillery, 7 armor and 2 fighters. Not on round 1!
Mmm . . . stacked Karelians.
Okay, be nice, because what I’m about to say will probably be a really dumb idea. I’m curious to know if anyone has tried an ultra-conservative German strategy. Let’s say Russia only attacked WRussia on R1, and abandoned Karelia (which is not an unfamiliar Russian opening), instead of Germany going on the offensive and trying to break through all those darn Russian infantry, what if Germany makes no attacks (except Karelia) on the mainland (I’m not referring to naval attacks in the Med) and just fortifies it’s line (Karelia, Belo, and Ukraine) for a couple rounds until Japan gets a little stronger on the mainland.
Okay, maybe that’s just the stupidest idea ever, but I’m still interested to know your thoughts. Thanks.
