Peace at Last

Barbara Striesand? Who’s that? :)

@TG:

Barbara Striesand? Who’s that? :)

she’s the one who invented mircoeconomics :) ;)

to Xi: you are right about your first line, but the rest sounded so much like the above…… i took it seriously, sorry.

she’s the one who invented mircoeconomics

Smart woman. :wink:

So the jewish guy who wrote “Peace At Last” ripped it off from somewhere else? I’m confused.

And F_alk you goddamn moron, there was no joke or pun inteneded from what I wrote. I take it as a warning, only because I already see pieces falling into place. End of story.

“When German Justice Minister Herta Daubler-Gmelin accused Bush of using Iraq to “…distract attention from his domestic problems…” and that “Even Hitler did that”, she failed to notice the irony of what she was saying. Chancellor Gerhard Schroder’s anti-American rhetoric is used to cover up for his own domestic failures and Germany’s tanking economy. When did all of these European countries feel that they are some sort of moral superiors to the United States? It is all politics as usual in every country.”

Chancellor Gerhard Schroder’s anti-American rhetoric is used to cover up for his own domestic failures and Germany’s tanking economy.

Where was Schroder’s promises of lowering Germany’s massive unemployment?

@Guest::

And F_alk you goddamn moron, there was no joke or pun inteneded from what I wrote. I take it as a warning, only because I already see pieces falling into place. End of story.

You take it as a warning, i take it as a cheap and blind excuse to go on and send soldiers against civilians.

“When German Justice Minister Herta Daubler-Gmelin accused Bush of using Iraq to “…distract attention from his domestic problems…” and that “Even Hitler did that”, she failed to notice the irony of what she was saying. Chancellor Gerhard Schroder’s anti-American rhetoric is used to cover up for his own domestic failures and Germany’s tanking economy. When did all of these European countries feel that they are some sort of moral superiors to the United States? It is all politics as usual in every country.”

Well, at least we use rethoric to cover our domestic failures and don’t start wars that kill people to do that. I prefer the first way i must admit.
Anyway: the comment of Herta Däubler-Gmelin is not excusable, and she stepped back before she could get fired (which would have happened effectively, as in her not being announced as “new minister of justice”).

Btw, are your last sentences quotes or your own opinion (the last quotation mark confuses me)?
I guess we started to feel superior the moment that you started to think that you are always right.

@HortenFlyingWing:

Strong language, sorry about me saying that. I was in a bad mood.

No worries, i know myself good enough not to blame anyone for such a thing.

I don’t want a war in Iraq. NONE. Bush blew it. But now, the UN security council is working on denouncing Israel and the “palestinians” again…woop-ee-doo. All those countries damn well know trying to protect Saddam’s “soveirgnty” and talking that out is yet another stalling tactic. Either no questions asked weapons inspections (what i want), or war. If the UN cannot comply, Bahrain, Qutar, Turkey, GHreat Britain, and the US can.

To make my stand:
I don’t want in Iraq. I don’t want a war in Palestine and Israel. THe problem and difference between these two is:
The resolutions against the Iraq cover “domestic” issues (as long as he doesn’t invade other countries or uses his weapons abroad), while the resolutions against Israel (which are being defied much longer than the Iraq defies its resolutions) cover “international” affairs, as they cover issues in and about the occupied areas.
So, there is a difference. What you make out of that is totally your own business.

“I guess we started to feel superior the moment that you started to think that you are always right.”

We’re not always right, but by hell you are not. “Politics as usual.” I meant every country uses these political tactics with war and such (and the explotion of it.) That does nothing with the fact if a war is necessary or not. Do you catch my drift?

Sure we are not alwys right. Noone is. But we don’t claim that we are always right, and we don’t condemn people who say their different opinion loudly without a single thought over that opinion.
Your “politics as usual” covers not such a lot of countries. “War” as a political instrument lost much (if not all) of its importance after WWII in europe and parts of asia. It may be deployed still by the US and Russia and a few others (mostly countries looking for local hegemony), but i would never call war a political instrument. War is murder on a greater scale, in very rare cases it might be unavoidable: but then i wouldn’t call it a “political tactic”, not even a “political means”, but the “failure of politics”.

war is most deinantly political. How about britain and the fokland islands? How about germans, europeans, and americans liberating Kuwait from Iraq? Obviously it was a wise political mood.

“To make my stand:
I don’t want in Iraq. I don’t want a war in Palestine and Israel. THe problem and difference between these two is:
The resolutions against the Iraq cover “domestic” issues (as long as he doesn’t invade other countries or uses his weapons abroad)”

Not to buy chinese radar systems and what not…

“, while the resolutions against Israel (which are being defied much longer than the Iraq defies its resolutions)”

Right there, stop the lie. STOP! That is opinion not fact, and a bad opinion
because it is an outright lie. Iraq tortures far more than the Israelis, and they (Qussai’s secret police) torture to keep saddam in power, and the rare instances of torture from the IDF deal with captured killers…and that is extremely rare. You condemn israelis executions of people they cannot arrests. One cannot count or remember those killed by Saddam in Iraq.

@Horten:

war is most deinantly political. How about britain and the fokland islands? How about germans, europeans, and americans liberating Kuwait from Iraq? Obviously it was a wise political mood.

Well, if you are attacked by a country (and therefore forced into war) i would say that politics has failed beforehand. Then of course you should fight. If you receive a call for help by a country who is invaded/conquered, you have do decide wether to go into war or not. THe two examples you brought to not disagree with my position.

“To make my stand:
I don’t want in Iraq. I don’t want a war in Palestine and Israel. THe problem and difference between these two is:
The resolutions against the Iraq cover “domestic” issues (as long as he doesn’t invade other countries or uses his weapons abroad)”

Not to buy chinese radar systems and what not…

i should have said “would cover” then. The “old resolution” of course was set up after an “international” affair (Quwait), but actually i don’t mind them buying radar systems more than i mind the US doing research on forbidden aggressive chemical weapons.

“, while the resolutions against Israel (which are being defied much longer than the Iraq defies its resolutions)”

Right there, stop the lie. STOP! That is opinion not fact, and a bad opinion
because it is an outright lie. Iraq tortures far more than the Israelis, and they (Qussai’s secret police) torture to keep saddam in power, and the rare instances of torture from the IDF deal with captured killers…and that is extremely rare. You condemn israelis executions of people they cannot arrests. One cannot count or remember those killed by Saddam in Iraq.

I didn’t lie. You interpreted too much into my lines, but you got my point.
Israel is not torturing its citizens, but the citizens of its occupied areas. Iraq tortures its people. That’s what i meant with the difference between “international” and “domestic”.

How is your stand on nations sovereignity and right to handle their internal affairs “undisturbed” (i know it sounds sarcasric in this context, but i’d like to know that from you regardless of these two examples). When does the international community have a right to step in and tell a government that they have to stop what they are doing to their own people / to foreign people that happen to be under their rule (tourists, in occupied areas,etc)?

Israel torturing the Palestinians? If you are referring to their horrible economic situation, that is Arafat’s doing. He got control over 97% of them in the Oslo Accords.

Guess who came out of retirement?
@'X:

… Barbara Streisand came out of retirement for what some called ‘The Resurrection Tour.’ “Peace at Last” was the title cut for her biggest selling CD ever.

YES, I called it less than seven days before she did it! We’ll keep the nickname or the tour and title cut since she did it to save the Democrat Party. :roll:
–-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
“Litigation on the copyright and earnings from this song, though some have called Ms. Streisand’s version ‘butchery’, continues this day. The earnings, with interest, now total more than the GNP of the US for the year 1997(Year 11 O.E.), the last good year of the Reagan Boom.”
History of the Earth , Third Planet from Star #37,696. Ch. 4, p. 138.
KzrN 78N4451q, Ed. (14,082 G.K.). Trans., Xi 2334 (643 N.E.). (TSD)

@EmuGod:

Israel torturing the Palestinians? If you are referring to their horrible economic situation, that is Arafat’s doing. He got control over 97% of them in the Oslo Accords.

Xi might call that a “more subtle” way of torturing.

Iwas looking for the actual body count of both sides in the net. I couldn’t find it, instead i found the following:
http://www.zmag.org/shalom-meqa.htm

Seems like it is from a source that most americans would call “communist”, but still, the author of the article has done quite some research with an extensive list of literature and it seems to be written by a jew. I therefore put more trust in that than in many things posted here without proof. So, i now have to wait for others, arguing pro-israel, to bring up evidence like that.

F_k,
Don’t confuse others!
You’ve rudely pulled my comment from another string.
Besides, if you would look at the “Do Jews …” string
you will find that I have humbly acquiesced to your point. - Xi

@F_alk:

Seems like it is from a source that most americans would call “communist”, but still, the author of the article has done quite some research with an extensive list of literature and it seems to be written by a jew.

Leave us communist out of this! :o The Israelis and Palestinians are such fools. The events in Isreali was nothing but a farce made up by the common oppressor - the ruling class which keeps them divided in order to continue to oppress them. The ruling classes in the Middle East do not want real peace, they just want the tension lessened so that they can continue with their business without interruptions. If there were actual “peace” then the workers of all ethnicities and religions would unite against the ruling class. - Yfis

@Horten:

war is most deinantly political. How about britain and the fokland islands?

The F_alkland Island was most definitely politics - the politics of the ruling bourgeoisies. On March 30, 1982, in response to Argentina’s deepening economic crisis, and the repression of General Galtieri’s military-police dictatorship, the workers had taken to the streets of Buenos Aires. The bourgeoisies regime was staring overthrow in the face. It responded - as has so frequently happened in history - by starting a war. One of the principal aims of the junta in invading the Falkland Islands was to distract the attention of the masses. This analysis was made by the Marx himself, and remains as valid as when it was written. Unlike other tendencies we can reproduce everything he wrote twenty years ago in relation to the Falklands war without changing a single word. -Yfis

@F_alk:

@EmuGod:

Israel torturing the Palestinians? If you are referring to their horrible economic situation, that is Arafat’s doing. He got control over 97% of them in the Oslo Accords.

Xi might call that a “more subtle” way of torturing.

Iwas looking for the actual body count of both sides in the net. I couldn’t find it, instead i found the following:
http://www.zmag.org/shalom-meqa.htm

Seems like it is from a source that most americans would call “communist”, but still, the author of the article has done quite some research with an extensive list of literature and it seems to be written by a jew. I therefore put more trust in that than in many things posted here without proof. So, i now have to wait for others, arguing pro-israel, to bring up evidence like that.

There’s a whole book by A Pro-Palestinian woman who researched thoroughly to prove hte Palestinians correct and found out that this was actually not true so her book became pro-Israel. I can find the name for you.

By the way, just because a Jew wrote that doesn’t mean it’s accurate. there are many Jews who don’t recognize the state of Israel and there are t5hose who are pro-Palestinian. There’s a saying that goes, “2 Jews, 3 opinion.” I can certainly think of 4 or 5 right now in my head alone.

Just to help to shake up the correctness of this source, I’d like to point out to you that it claims that Sharon was indireclty responsible for the massacres at Sabra and Shatila but BELGIUM, a country that has had a major increase in anti-semitism recently has found him innocent of these so called war crimes and of this in particular…

@Xi:

F_k,
Don’t confuse others! …

ok, X_i,

i apologize formally.

And you are right, but i just love crossweaving threads.

@EmuGod:

There’s a whole book by A Pro-Palestinian woman who researched thoroughly to prove hte Palestinians correct and found out that this was actually not true so her book became pro-Israel. I can find the name for you.

By the way, just because a Jew wrote that doesn’t mean it’s accurate. there are many Jews who don’t recognize the state of Israel and there are t5hose who are pro-Palestinian. There’s a saying that goes, “2 Jews, 3 opinion.” I can certainly think of 4 or 5 right now in my head alone.

I would be interested in that book, do you know wether there’s an abstract on the net?
And of course, being a Jew doesn’t mean he’s right. Doesn’t mean he’s wrong either. It was just to take some wind of the “he-surely-is-anti-Israel-anyway”-sails. Imagine your response if he was from Jordan, Syria or any arab country: Wouldn’t have taken that as close-to-a-proof that his opinion must be biased?

@EmuGod:

Just to help to shake up the correctness of this source, I’d like to point out to you that it claims that Sharon was indireclty responsible for the massacres at Sabra and Shatila but BELGIUM, a country that has had a major increase in anti-semitism recently has found him innocent of these so called war crimes and of this in particular…

Why did they go to court in Belgium, who started the trials?
Where does your claim for a “major increase” in antisemitism come from?
Do courts never make mistakes?

Your point is valid and has to be discussed though.
Still, that source is the most “scientific” i have found in here up to now :)