KJF Round 1

Link both UK and USA fleets in z12 or z8, or German aircraft can toast one of them. Probably you’ll have to land at Algeria or protect England if Germans buy some trannies.

India needs 7 units or Japan can risk and conquer India in J1 with some advantage. Make it sure you have 7 units.

I’d kill z59 tra with dd, not with fig, because Japan can toast China anyway. Unless, of course, you plan land UK fig in consolidated Buryatia.

Pick inf from Midway with your trannie, or it will be sit there all the game. In from Hawaii is  usually out of reach because of Japan’s fleet.

Annoy germans with 4 units a turn from UK and a 2nd wave of USA reinforcements (1 inf form ala, 1 from mid, 2 from cusa). With soviet forces, it can stop Germany until Japan is beat.

If you can afford, build a 2nd IC in saf, UK1. If defend Africa and later, saf armors can reach to India and help defense there. With 2 IC on UK1, you must send defend England with forces you have on board. Sea Lion is dangerous here.

India must have about 20-25 units in UK 3 or it will fall to Japan (unless Japan player is a moron  :-P ). Send figs from USA to Australia to India, figs from England and maybe some armor form soviets (armor are better because they can back to Caucasus if Germany is too near).

Have fun. A global strategy prevents monster stacks of multinational forces in Russia/Caucasus, thus preventing heavy headaches for you calculating the options. A big plus in a FtF  :-)

India UK 1:

4 units from ind
1 unit from per
1 inf from trj (by tra)
1 soviet armor from caucasus (some times, Japan forget it and you can blitz fic in SOV1  :-D)

India UK 3:

turn 1: 6 units
turn 2: 3 units from IC, at least 1 fig, 1 bomb from eng
turn 3: 3 units from IC, 1 fig from USA (go to Australia in USA 2), 1 bomb from USA, 4 units from Australia and N.Zel (tricky, but can be done). Sometimes, you can get even more USA figs

20 units. If you need more, pick some armor or fig from soviets

@captainjack:

I’m playing a 4-player F2F game tonight, and my friend and I are the Allies.  We are planning on trying a KJF (or SJF) and I just wanted to get some thoughts on our Round 1 plans.
Russia1: buy 5 inf, 1 art, 1 arm; take Belorussia and West Russia, land one fig in Yakut, as well as one tank.  5-6 inf stack in Bury, 2 inf from Novo to Sink, sub to SZ6 (to block German navy from SZ3).

DAMN, I wish people would use geographical references when referring to sea zones.  SZ 6?  SZ 3?  WHERE ARE THOSE?  I don’t see a big “6” floating in the water, and that’s even when I am hallucinating.

Anyways - no, you generally shouldn’t bulk up at Burytia, especially with your game plan.  When you DO bulk up at Burytia, you do two things.  First, you have a lot of infantry on your coast far away from Moscow, it takes a long time to move that stack back.  Second, Japan can and very possibly will decide to kick that stack’s ass unless it’s got the UK India fighter on it.

As far as leaving the sub separated - I’d say don’t do it.  Join the UK battleship and transport.  Otherwise, if nothing else, the Germans can try sub-fighter-bomber vs the UK battleship and transport, and clear the other UK battleship with spare fighters (plus possibly Med navy; note that Germany can still grab Anglo-Egypt, especially with a bid).

Also, you might want to do W. Russia only, keep the fighter in the west to trade more VALUABLE territory with the Germans, and send the additional forces down towards India to reinforce.  Japan WILL be coming for you with a hard-on when it sees that India IC go up.

UK1: buy IC (for India), trn, inf, art; amph assault to Norway w/ or w/out air depending on what Germany does with the Navy, 4 inf stack in India, move TransJ inf to Egypt (these guys never attack Egypt on R1). move tank from Egypt to Persia, Indian ocean fig to attack Kwang trn and land in China, Indian ocean fleet and Aussy fleet to meet in SZ38, fig from Egypt to land on AC in 38.

Aw man, no.  First, you’re assuming your UK fleet won’t get blown to hell because your Russian sub blocked, right?  But like I said, the R1 sub move followed by a G1 sub/fighter/bomber attack might kill your fleet before you even get to UK1.

Second, if you’re going to try to mess with India, you might want to consider IC/bomber, or IC/fighter/save 5 IPC.  I mean, yeah, seriously.  Your R1 plans didn’t hit Germany’s airforce, and even if you fix the Russian sub move so your UK fleet doesn’t get totally blown up, you’ll have to contend with 6 fighters 1 bomber.  NO PROBLEM if UK wasn’t bleeding 9+ IPC to India each turn, and if US wasn’t building a fat Pacific fleet.  But do you really think Germany will let you run cost-efficient transports from London when it sees you’re committed to defending India, and US is committed to Pacific?  No way.

Third, the UK fighter in China - is that the eastern or western US territory?  Hope it isn’t the eastern, because if it is, Japan killed it probably; 7 inf plus 1-2 fighter vs 2 inf 2 fighter no contest!  Keep the fighter on India!  Or land on the infantry stack at Burytia, or strafe Solomon island sub and land on the US carrier at Pearl.  Do something with it.

Fourth - hey, your opponents don’t take Anglo-Egypt on G1.  Lucky for you your opponents think like that.   :roll:  Jesus, I can’t believe it, it’s like they’re begging to have their asses smoked.  Dried and smoked.  Whatever.  It’s like a miracle.  But “waiting for a miracle” is not a battle plan.  You can’t count on it, unless you’re Yugi Mutoh or Jayden Yuki.

US1: amph to Algeria and clean up Africa, Hawaiian fig and the bomber to land in Bury, consolodate fleet in SZ55, IC in Sink.
Any thoughts?

MAN, you can’t count on still holding Burytia past J1; Japan can hit that with 4 ground plus 3-4 air plus battleship bombard.  Who knows if 5-6 isolated infantry are gonna survive?  I suck with the Axis compared to my Allied play, but even I won an Axis game after I sacked a Burytia stack on J1.  It just ain’t safe.

@captainjack:

I’m not trying to knit pick, but I have a couple questions…

Picking nits is secksy.  And hygenic.

@Funcioneta:

India UK 1:

4 units from ind   you only start with 3 units here?

Hey, man, you can have a TON of dudes on India by the time J1 rolls around.  R1 plus UK1 equals stack.  Of course, a lot of that messes up the R1 combat moves, but whatever.
1 unit from per
1 inf from trj (by tra)
1 soviet armor from caucasus (some times, Japan forget it and you can blitz fic in SOV1  :-D)
how is this done???  India is 2 spaces away from Caucusus, but how can you blitz to FIC on Russia1??

He means R1 tank to India.  If Japan abandons French Indochina on J1 (to fuel a big fist on China for example), Russia can blitz French Indochina on R2.
India UK 3:

turn 1: 6 units
turn 2: 3 units from IC, at least 1 fig, 1 bomb from eng
turn 3: 3 units from IC, 1 fig from USA (go to Australia in USA 2), 1 bomb from USA, 4 units from Australia and N.Zel (tricky, but can be done). Sometimes, you can get even more USA figs

20 units. If you need more, pick some armor or fig from soviets

Is it time for a VAGUE TACTICAL POST?

(cheers heard in the distance)

I THINK IT IS!  LOL

Okay, KJF and breaking KJF.

Buncha different ways to KJF.  You can go UK/US ICs plus Pacific fleet with Africa stall, or without Africa stall, or no ICs, or delayed ICs, or frickin lots of ways wow.  But here’s some junk you’re gonna have to watch out for.

1.  Japan hits one area then another.  Yeah, like Japan decides to kill Pearl and China, then comes back and grabs Burytia, then goes for India.  (In this case, the US needs time to build up an offensive fleet).  Or Japan decides to whack Burytia and China, moves its fleet towards the South Pacific forcing the UK fleet to go south of Australia, while Japan gears up to smash India.

2.  Japan feeds down to India.  Yeah, Japan can pretty much see KJF coming after a UK1 IC build.  Seriously.  But Japan can still build 3 transports plus tank on J1.  J2 Japan drops 8 ground to Kwangtung (this is the DEFENSIVE Japan play) and flies air back.  J3, the 8 ground from Kwangtung join up with 8 more units dropped to French Indochina plus Japan air, for 16 ground units at French Indochina plus 5-6 air plus two battleship bombards threatening India on J4.  That’s without even breaking a sweat.

(The usual feed for Japan is 2 transports at French Indochina swapping with 2 transports at Japan, feeding 4 ground into Burytia and 4 into French Indochina regularly, with possibly 1-2 units from Burytia bleeding towards French Indochina quickly (i.e. tanks) for a 2-3 unit push north and a 5-6 unit push south.)

(But with KJF, Japan typically is looking at cracking an industrial complex, and they want to do it fast.  That way, they don’t have to build the IC, and their navy and air can go to the South Pacific to fight off the US navy.  Around J3, the Japanese navy and air force is posted at French Indochina, which means the US forces probably aren’t strong enough to move into the high-IPC island area.  J4, Japan commits, the US moves in, but with a high-probability J4 IC capture, Japan can put its entire J4 build towards air, which gives Japan naval superiority again.  Which just means that the Allies can’t let Japan crack that India IC, of course)

3.  Tank dash.  I mean, really, Japan just tries to kill all the ground forces early on, builds 1-2 ICs, and tries to pump tanks into Russia like crazy, while Germany does the same from the other side.  U.S. grabs the islands.  Japan is like “so what”.  Moscow falls.  Suddenly, all the surviving Axis fighters run towards Tokyo, and Japan pops eight infantry out.  Germany uses its tanks to smash into Africa, and produces a few infantry on the coast if needed.  Axis scream VICTORY VICTORY as the Japanese and US fleets clash in the Pacific (fueled by Japan’s huge income, Japan wins), and German boats choke the English channel.  (I mean really, it’s not all that straightforward, that’s the general game plan)

May I, as a KJF Veteran of many games, make a humble suggestion that your Round 1 moves for both England and Russia not deviate in the slightest from how you would normally play the game if you were planning to kill Germany first?  This would require that you do not purchase the Industrial Complex for India (unless this is a habitual purchase for you in all your other games.)

There are many reasons I make this, humble, suggestion but let me just illiterate on a few of them.

1)  The axis will play normal games for round 1 if they do not suggest you are going to attempt to eliminate Japan as a threat before taking down Germany.  This alone will negate the vast majority of events that Germany and Japan can do on round 1 to foul up a kill Japan first strategy.

2)  Since kill Germany first is generally more forgiving of bad dice (nothing is TRULY forgiving of bad dice, but this is more so than kill Japan first is) the first round will give you a much better understanding of which power is the weaker.  I tend to feel this is a good idea for the allies in either scenario because it allows you a turn to build up your forces and a turn to see if any of Germany’s attacks or Japan’s attacks on the first round fail to succeed with splendid colors.  After all, if you defended SZ 52 (Hawaii) with a British fighter, an American fighter, an American submarine and an America carrier getting 4 hits on round 1 then allowing you to swiftly move in and wipe up the last battleship, carrier and fighter in the sea zone with minimal risk to your own American navy, perhaps you should focus on Japan.  However, if Japan came through the battle all but unscathed and Germany got pounded on their counter attacks and attacks (perhaps only gaining Egypt with one tank and/or losing a lot of infantry liberating the Ukraine and taking Karelia) then a shift to killing Germany first may be more productive.

In any event, I believe, most humbly, that the allies should never commit themselves to any one course of action before the start of Round 2 (which I say includes America 1 and Russia 2 as opposed to the strict interpretation of the rules which clearly define a round starting with Russia.)

3)  There are a few different methods of kill Japan first.  The best method probably won’t be discovered until after Japan 1 when you see the layout of the Axis (and hence their plan).

A)  You could go to the battleship dominance strategy building an Industrial Complex, Aircraft Carrier, 2 infantry and an armor on Round 1 (the complex to go to Alaska) and then 1 or 2 battleships a round thereafter until such time you can overwhelm and destroy the Japanese fleet. (Note:  America begins with 3 transports, you only need two transports to hit Japan every round with offshore bombardments.)

B)  You could go the island hopping route which generally begins with two aircraft carriers and a fighter on round 1 followed by submarines, destroyers and a second battleship sometime there after. (Again, you have 3 transports, you should only need 1 or 2 for your hopping.)  Hooking up with the British fleet which is unified in SZ 30 as soon as possible.

C)  You could go the Asian invasion course which requires an American complex in China, a British complex in India and the unification of the fleets. (This one is nice because you can switch gears and send units to aid Russia if need be.)

4)  A complex in India on round 1 results in a massive invasion of India on Japan 2.  It is almost impossible to block (relying heavily on favorable dice) and almost impossible to liberate (without sacrificing the entire Russian armor corps.)

However, a complex in India on round 2 is much harder for Japan to take.  For one, they are not expecting a complex to go up at this time, in my humble opinion.  For another, their forces are scattered further north with less ability to move them down to invade. (By less ability, I mean it should be two rounds just to get them stationed in Fr. Indo China to invade and this entire time they are not attacking China nor invading Russia.)  And lastly, it is easier for England to defend (since they now have the round they build, +1 round to build units there, maybe even 2 rounds to build before Japan’s in position to attack heavily.)  Also, at this time, you may be in a position to take out the E. Indies and/or move the British off Australia into India for added defense. (Remember, Japan normally has no ships close by on Japan 2 to invade through SZ 35 since most of their fleet is up near Hawaii to take out the Americans there with as great of firepower as possible.)

Those are just a few of my, humble, opinions as a Kill Japan First Veteran in Axis and Allies Revised.

I would like to expound on the idea that Kill Japan First, to me, means that you have neutralized Japan.  Once you get Japan’s income down under 12 IPC a round and have sunk their fleet, they have been neutralized.  (Mainly because if they are that weak, they can neither move units from their homeland to attack nor should they have any industrial complexes on the mainland.  Also, at 12 IPC a round, they will never have the firepower needed to sink your navy nor defend themselves from your navy.)  At this point, they can be ignored while you focus on Germany.

But again, those are just my most humble opinions.  I would never tell a player how they should play their game, especially when I cannot see the development of the board from round to round.

@Cmdr:

But again, those are just my most humble opinions.  I would never tell a player how they should play their game, especially when I cannot see the development of the board from round to round.

OMG.  Who are you?  What have you done with Jen?

Lol.

?

LMAO, I was typing the same thing almost word for word, what is that 6 “humbles”

:roll:
I can’t even bring myself to read her stuff anymore, gives me a headache :-P

Do you build IC at Sin if you buy IC at India in UK2, Jen? I think India needs Sinkiang and viceversa. I’m interested in it, Jen. Could you link me a game were you used this tactic?

@Crazy:

:roll:
I can’t even bring myself to read her stuff anymore, gives me a headache :-P

Thou art smited for thy hostile nature towards my, most humble, advise.

@Funcioneta:

Do you build IC at Sin if you buy IC at India in UK2, Jen? I think India needs Sinkiang and vice-versa. I’m interested in it, Jen. Could you link me a game were you used this tactic?

If, after Japan’s first move, if I have decided to go the industrial complex route with America and England, I will purchase the Industrial Complex for China on USA 1 and the Industrial Complex for India on UK 2.  This provides Japan with, in my humble opinion, two quandaries to face them on Japan 1.

Obviously I believe that the Indian complex is a higher priority for Japan than the Chinese complex due to the relative ease of Russia to send reinforcements to China.  However, not all will believe this.  In either event, Japan, in my opinion - humble as it is - cannot afford to take out both industrial complexes, reinforce it’s fleet to stave off the Americans and assist Germany in attacking Russia.

If, by some twist of fate, I should find myself in ownership of two or more of the orange territories on the mainland (Usually Kwangtung and Manchuria since it is my, personal, experience that Japan puts a Complex in Fr. Indo China on round 1 and there-after, cannot afford a second one) then I will most assuredly put a second complex in Sinkiang, maybe even a third in Manchuria or Kwangtung if America owns them. (This allows 7 ground units to be placed, keeping all 3 starting transports busy and building up a reserve of troops if needed.)

As for a link to the Asian strategy, alas, I cannot remember the last time I went this route.  In my, most humble, opinion, this is the hardest process of dismantling Japan.

If I may suggest, I would not go this route if Japan did not get clobbered by the defending Chinese.  If Japan attacked with 5 or 6 infantry and lost all or all but one of them, it may be viable (since there is now no direct threat to the Sinkiang complex on Japan 2).  Otherwise, building the complex on USA 1 may result in the complex falling on Japan 2.

Shadow,

Who are you playing that does not attack Egypt with Germany on round 1, and can you please hook me up with him?  I need a new sucker.  8-)

Seriously, no use in even THINKING of having that fighter in Egypt.  I rather wonder why we don’t just get together with some of the other clubs and just alter the game board to reflect the most likely out comes and start the game at round 2.  Russia’s pretty scripted now, Germany and England too, the only real changes come in Japan and America.

@captainjack:

I’m playing a 4-player F2F game tonight, and my friend and I are the Allies.  We are planning on trying a KJF (or SJF) and I just wanted to get some thoughts on our Round 1 plans.
Russia1: buy 5 inf, 1 art, 1 arm; take Belorussia and West Russia, land one fig in Yakut, as well as one tank.  5-6 inf stack in Bury, 2 inf from Novo to Sink, sub to SZ6 (to block German navy from SZ3).
UK1: buy IC (for India), trn, inf, art; amph assault to Norway w/ or w/out air depending on what Germany does with the Navy, 4 inf stack in India, move TransJ inf to Egypt (these guys never attack Egypt on R1). move tank from Egypt to Persia, Indian ocean fig to attack Kwang trn and land in China, Indian ocean fleet and Aussy fleet to meet in SZ38, fig from Egypt to land on AC in 38.
US1: amph to Algeria and clean up Africa, Hawaiian fig and the bomber to land in Bury, consolodate fleet in SZ55, IC in Sink.
Any thoughts?

If you are going to KJF, you need a US pacific fleet, not a sink IC. You also need a UK bomber w/in range to sink japan transports should they be dumb and buy 3 for you to sink.

But rather than get opinions, play it out and learn. Nothing says “fun” better than trial and error. :)

@Cmdr:

A)  You could go to the battleship dominance strategy building an Industrial Complex, Aircraft Carrier, 2 infantry and an armor on Round 1 (the complex to go to Alaska) and then 1 or 2 battleships a round thereafter until such time you can overwhelm and destroy the Japanese fleet.

How do you defend that complex from japanese round 2 attack with all available transporters (maybe four) and perhaps fighters from CV before pearl harbour, perhaps a BB too?
There can be two inf (one us, one british), one tank (british), one bomber and three fighters at Alaska. But two of that fighters will be needed to secure the us fleet before WUS, I think. And if you use the transport to bring two additional inf to Alaska that tranny will be dead.
Do you sacrifice that tranny and risk one fighter to hold the newly build IC, or do you accept the loss of Alaska and counter it with five inf from WCA (fifth from Midway), tank and air?

@ShadowHAwk:

If germany does not take or attack egypt on turn 1 you can verry easy defend india from japan.

Not attacking Anglo-Egypt on G1 is probably due to one of three reasons.

1.  Germany is retarded

2.  Germany is not retarded, but there is something else that is SOOOO GOOOOD for Germany that Germany won’t pass it up.

3.  Germany is not retarded, but there is something else that is pretty darn good that Germany decided to do.

–

Germany should and almost certainly will hit Anglo-Egypt.  If Germany does NOT, it’s probably because Germany is opening up a really big can of whoop-a** somewhere else.

In which case India may be a secondary concern after all.

I agree, if Germany does NOT hit Anglo-Egypt, then yeah, India is lotz easier to defend.  But do you want to defend India, is what I’m saying here.

We were used to play f2f games 2 Vs 2 and usually we did not use any bid.

We perfom the attack in this way:

• 1 sub three fighters attack Gibraltar BB;
• 1 BB, 1 fig, 1 TRN (1 inf 1 art) attack Suez DD;
• 2 inf, 1 art, 1 tank, 1 fig, 1 bmb attacck 1 inf, 1 tank, 1 fig in Egypt;

Now we are using bid for axis and if Germany places bid on the Eastern front the attack in the mediterranean are performed in the same way as described above.

I think that Anglo-Egypt forces and Gibraltar BB have to be destroyed on R1.