Submarine vs Carrier

The carrier gets a chance to defend itself.

You would retreat, not submerge, after the carrier shot back, because the retreat phase follows the rolling phase of the combat turn.

Basically, after opening fire is done, normal combat commences. Your sub shot during opening fire, and there are no “conventional” attacks from your side. However, the carrier gets to roll its defense roll, as it is part of normal combat. After each round of normal combat you can retreat attacking units, in this case the submarine.

The retreat step is after both opening fire step and main-round fire step.
Hence the submerine can’t submerge just yet, it has to wait til the retreat step which is at the end of a combat cycle.

P.S. By the way, if you do like a rule that submarine can submerge immediately, google the house rules AARe (axis and allies revised ehhanced).

Not only the carrier can fire back, so can any other ships in the sea zone AND any aircraft on the carrier…

ALL of the defenders get a crack at that SUB.

Even if the SUB does hit the AC on its sneak, those FIGs it is carrying STILL get a chance to fire back…

@Nukchebi0:

You would retreat, not submerge, after the carrier shot back, because the retreat phase follows the rolling phase of the combat turn.

Couldn’t the sub do either one?  You might WANT to submerge to stay in the sea zone for various reasons as opposed to retreating out.

Yep.

Each attacking sub that survives the first round of defensive fire can either

a) stay in the combat with all other attacking surface ships

b) retreat from the combat along with all other attacking surface ships

c) submerge, regardless of what other attacking surface ships do.

Note that each sub makes this decision independently… you could have a few subs submerge, and one sub retreat with the surface ships, or you could have one sub stay in the combat and one sub submerge, or whatever.

~Josh

@ncscswitch:

Even if the SUB does hit the AC on its sneak, those FIGs it is carrying STILL get a chance to fire back…

well this is new to me, i thought that if the defending forces have no destroyer present, that they cannot shoot at my sub( exception is the enemy sub ), so in this case the figs would sink alongside with AC

but if you say so…

The ONLY time a SUB can kill a FIG is if a SUB sinks an ATTACKING Carrier that has a FIG from another nation on it as cargo.

A destroyer prensent in the seazone only counters the special abilities of the sub, for example it could not move through a seazone containing a dd and it can’t submerge in a battle where an enemy dd still exists. Also the opening fire casulties produced by attacking subs are not removed from battle until the end of the round (together with all the other casulties)so they can retalliate 1 time.

So the diffrence with the example of the AC with 2 Figs is, if the sub hits and no enemy dd is present, the AC is sunk bevor he can defend, but the Figs can retaliate. If the sub survies it can then submerge and this combat ends. Now the 2 Fig have a movement of 1 to reach a save landing spot, if none is in reach, they are lost.

@ncscswitch:

The ONLY time a SUB can kill a FIG is if a SUB sinks an ATTACKING Carrier that has a FIG from another nation on it as cargo.

well not quite,

for example as mentioned in the example above

the attacking sub attackes the defender ACs

and if it sinks the AC, the figs are sank too-suppose that they dont have the landing spot in 1 move-which often happens

so, actually subs can destroy figs, rarely, but can :mrgreen:

@Ranor:

A destroyer prensent in the seazone only counters the special abilities of the sub, for example it could not move through a seazone containing a dd and it can’t submerge in a battle where an enemy dd still exists. Also the opening fire casulties produced by attacking subs are not removed from battle until the end of the round (together with all the other casulties)so they can retalliate 1 time.

So the diffrence with the example of the AC with 2 Figs is, if the sub hits and no enemy dd is present, the AC is sunk bevor he can defend, but the Figs can retaliate. If the sub survies it can then submerge and this combat end. Now the 2 Fig have a movement of 1 to reach a save landing spot, if none is in reach, they are lost.

you re probably right since the figs are air units and can retaliate always, no matter des is present or not on their side

but when on AC the figs are maybe threated as sea units?? and thatwise cant retaliate in our case

well, as i said i think you re right, maybe Craig Yope or some of the experts, and some of our volk here on the forum( Switch, Jen…) can help( confirm )

Well TECHNICALLY the SUB does not kill the FIGs in that example, the FIGs die from lack of LZ.

It is a result of the SUBs action, but they are not killed by direct action of the SUB per se

And if you make that distinction, it makes the SUB/AC question clearer in that in reinforces the fact that SUBs can’t kill FIGs (except CARGO FIGs)

@ncscswitch:

Well TECHNICALLY the SUB does not kill the FIGs in that example, the FIGs die from lack of LZ.

It is a result of the SUBs action, but they are not killed by direct action of the SUB per se

And if you make that distinction, it makes the SUB/AC question clearer in that in reinforces the fact that SUBs can’t kill FIGs (except CARGO FIGs)

yes, it seems thats the catch  :mrgreen:

@Amon:

@Ranor:

A destroyer prensent in the seazone only counters the special abilities of the sub, for example it could not move through a seazone containing a dd and it can’t submerge in a battle where an enemy dd still exists. Also the opening fire casulties produced by attacking subs are not removed from battle until the end of the round (together with all the other casulties)so they can retalliate 1 time.

So the diffrence with the example of the AC with 2 Figs is, if the sub hits and no enemy dd is present, the AC is sunk bevor he can defend, but the Figs can retaliate. If the sub survies it can then submerge and this combat end. Now the 2 Fig have a movement of 1 to reach a save landing spot, if none is in reach, they are lost.

you re probably right since the figs are air units and can retaliate always, no matter des is present or not on their side

but when on AC the figs are maybe threated as sea units?? and thatwise cant retaliate in our case

well, as i said i think you re right, maybe Craig Yope or some of the experts, and some of our volk here on the forum( Switch, Jen…) can help( confirm )

Ranor is correct.  The inability of the hit carrier to return fire because there is no friendly destroyer present doesn’t extend to the fighters, since they weren’t hit themselves.  They fight in the air until the end of the battle, as they would any time their carrier is hit.

Fricking subs…