Black Sea
I think what adlertag means is that SZ16 should be fully north of Turkey to avoid confusion.
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackseage5.pngYou are correct, and it will look even better if the line between sz14 and sz15 is drawed straight to the southern most tip of Greece. As is now I am confused, can you reach the Turkey canal from sz 14 ?
As I said before this confusion would be cleared up if you use the 1939 Greece border which stretched to Turkey. Bulgaria should not have a border with SZ14. The SZ 14/15 border could then be drawn vertically up to Morea.
Pretty good job rejigging the Middle East, especially given the big distortion of the map here.
Just to tidy up a bit:
The Gulf of Aquaba is missing between Sinia, T-J and Saudi. This should give T-J access to the Red Sea.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aqaba
Iraq’s sea border is too long, give some of this back to Persia.
As I understand it, the status of Iraq in 1939 was similar to that of Egypt; the UK had military bases and transit rights. It was only the Raschid Ali coup in April 1941 that ended these privilages.
For some real semantics:
“Levant States” is a little too post war. In fact Lebanon was always included in the French mandate of Syria, so simple “Syria” is accurate.
Persia changed it’s name to Iran in 1936
Levant States" is a little too post war. In fact Lebanon was always included in the French mandate of Syria, so simple “Syria” is accurate.
Persia changed it’s name to Iran in 1936
ON my maps dated 1939-42 they all use Levant states
Also, Iran and Persia are used interchangeably in this time and are both correct.
I agree with this, you really should be able to invade Gibraltar from the Atlantic.
Thats the reason why the line exists. i want the extra move to get to Gibraltar so that if the axis take it they can park the fleet and protect it
Regarding China, Hopei should be Japanese by 1939.
Control of the Chinese south east region is always a problem, since the Japanese occupied all the important coastal towns but left the interior to China. Thus Shanghai, Nanking and Canton were in Japanese hands by the time of this map, although they constitute only a few coastal enclaves of the area overall.
Hong Kong was unoccupied but you may have a problem with a UK treaty port as a Chinese VC.
The other option is Changsha, capital of Hunan province. The USAAF used bases in Hunan to bomb Japan, forcing the Japanese to invade the area in operation Ichi-go. This is the best bet for a KMT/USA centre in this region.
Southern Sinkiang isn’t really Tibet, “Tarim Basin” is more like it.
Mentioning Hong Kong, I’ve been thinking that places like this and Gibraltar should be reclassified as treaty ports rather than made separate areas in themselves. So Gib would be a UK treaty port in Spain, and an attack on it would only be possible as a simultaneous attack on Spain itself which, if successful, closes the port to the Allies. Similarly if Spain joins the Axis for some reason the treaty is annulled and the port closed.
A TP Gibraltar would only be permitted to harbour UK ships with all relevant port facilities, but could not host ground or air units as defence of the region is considered the responsibility of neutral Spain.
Of course if you don’t use ports/naval bases you’ll have to think of something else, but it does seem untidy to have areas functionally as big as any other land area which on a real map are mere pin-pricks. Those ridiculous circles drawn around Hong Kong on, for example, AAP really twist my titties.
One other map operation I did was to “straighten out” the Levant, pushing Africa southwards (I started out with a map based on World at War, so many such ops were needed). This gives you more room in the Mediterranean for more islands (Sicily, Crete, Cyprus), but pushes Tangier and Gibraltar apart. I decided this last was a price worth paying for more room in then Med.
heres another reason why i use this flag. You never see Japanese soldiers marching into battle with the red meatball. Since this game is about war and created by the functions of war for Japanese everybody used this flag. The only time they used the other flag was for ceremony or post war. It was not used as any battle flag from 1941-45.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wuhan_1938_IJA.jpg
Regarding China, Hopei should be Japanese by 1939.
Again you miss the point. Hopei actually represents Shansi and Shantung as well and is only a name to show an identification. You read too much into names and why they are being used to represent.
Control of the Chinese south east region is always a problem, since the Japanese occupied all the important coastal towns but left the interior to China. Thus Shanghai, Nanking and Canton were in Japanese hands by the time of this map, although they constitute only a few coastal enclaves of the area overall.
Hong Kong was unoccupied but you may have a problem with a UK treaty port as a Chinese VC.
The other option is Changsha, capital of Hunan province. The USAAF used bases in Hunan to bomb Japan, forcing the Japanese to invade the area in operation Ichi-go. This is the best bet for a KMT/USA centre in this region.
Canton would be my choice for replacement VC in Kwangtung
Southern Sinkiang isn’t really Tibet, “Tarim Basin” is more like it.
Not correct. This area on all my published maps clearly shows Tibet with three distinct provinces:
Hoyo Bod Yul, Chwanpien, and Koko Nor. Instead of Tarim Basin a more correct name is “Plateau of Tibet”
Mentioning Hong Kong, I’ve been thinking that places like this and Gibraltar should be reclassified as treaty ports rather than made separate areas in themselves. So Gib would be a UK treaty port in Spain, and an attack on it would only be possible as a simultaneous attack on Spain itself which, if successful, closes the port to the Allies. Similarly if Spain joins the Axis for some reason the treaty is annulled and the port closed.
Gibraltar is much more important than Hong Kong to how the British cope with the axis preventing them from using the straights. Hong Kong is an open water port. An attack on it can be accomplished independently from a route involving Spain but at a high cost. I will allow it to remain so. Spain cannot be invaded because its mountainous . it has to be attacked from france. German planes for undertaking Isabella (proposed invasion of spain) are in line with this.
One other map operation I did was to “straighten out” the Levant, pushing Africa southwards (I started out with a map based on World at War, so many such ops were needed). This gives you more room in the Mediterranean for more islands (Sicily, Crete, Cyprus), but pushes Tangier and Gibraltar apart. I decided this last was a price worth paying for more room in then Med.
Not making any more changes except redoing france and possibly western USA. Not adding those islands. I only want primary places represented.
IL, are you actually making a game by commitee ?
WOW, I always belived you was dictator 8-)
read AARHE… it was made by like 30 people… by committee. You have me quite wrong. I will even welcome flashman to contribute except id like his comments to be more realistic to the boundaries of the project.
Read AARHE and let me know what should be done for
Lend lease
set up
starting technology levels
political rules for neutrals, Vichy, and free french
starting forces edit for neutrals
starting diplomacy levels for neutrals
aid from Soviets to Germany?
look and use the framework of AARHE to establish these new guidelines.
other ideas?
http://www.mediafire.com/?25zfwoxpxox
http://www.mediafire.com/upload_complete.php?id=zjbp2bnlv4n
I really don’t see anything left to modify. This is perfect as it can be.
Actually added more…
Burma road and Brenner pass-
restricted movement and combat unless a player controls both sides of the land territory. The Burma road will provide some limited income to China and restrict movement from Burma to the Chinese territory north of it.
The link between Germany and Italy also has similar restrictions to prevent allied path from Italy to Germany due to the major mountains in this area.
ill publish the link tomorrow.
Yes, I think Burma road is a good idea, also is Trans-siberian railway.
BRENNER PASS
I imagine an impassable mountain line between Germany and Italy, but with a pass/canal, like the Panama canal or Suez canal. You can only attack through this pass with 4 land units, and unlimited air. This will favour the defender. This rule should also go for sea canals. The ships sail one by one through canals, and are sitting ducks on the other side.
I like the Diplomatic Blitz rule from Attack! from Eagle Games.
Modified for A&A it will work like this :
You roll a diplomatic dice to make a minor join your side. The dice cost 3 IPC.
The basic roll is 3 or more for success. (Note that in combat you roll a number and less is hit)
Modifiers :
If the minor is adjacent to your home country, +1 to roll
If you have an army in adjacent territory, +1 to roll
If you have a battleship in adjacent sea zone, +1 to roll
If success, place your national token in the territory, the minor join you next turn.
Now the opposit players may try to counter-coup your allied minor, by rolling the same diplomatic dice.
Just as simple as that.
Southern Sinkiang isn’t really Tibet, “Tarim Basin” is more like it.
I think Flashman is finding that because Himalayas is too big at the moment. It covers what should be part of Tibet.
…Now the opposit players may try to counter-coup your allied minor, by rolling the same diplomatic dice.
[/quoteYeah in fact we have a very similar system in already AARHE.
Diplomatic rolls do not cost IPC. Powers like US gets more dice.
An neutral can be between -5 and +5. Positive being Allied camp.
It ranges between fully ally to just air units can pass.
We have modifiers too. Not for adjacent military though cos then you’ve got to consider neutral army. Spain has an big army. Afgan has a small army.[b]Anyway I think we should have a separate topic for rules.
you said many changes but actually I didn’t notice much haha
I see Archangel is Snowy now, I like that
Nigeria is fixed, which is important so its not too close to UK
I’ll skip the PNG export today since its not the latest version
approved but missing changes:
*purchase chart - 5 IPC AA/ID is not symbol and experiencing font viewing problem, 8 IPC gentleman to be removed
http://img223.imageshack.us/my.php?image=purchaseud8.png
*Australia - mountainous to be removed
http://img231.imageshack.us/my.php?image=australiajl4.png
*China - Inner Mongolia to be desert, Szechwan to be mountainous, Urumqi to be back in Sinkiang
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=chinage4.png
*Sahara - marked as “(Desert)” instead of strange pattern fill, I thought we are against terrain represented by
colour
http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/9784/saharaxw8.png
ongoing discussion and changes you’ve yet to reject:
*Pacific - 4 SZs between Japan and Western US might be too low compared to 3 SZs between Soviet Far East and Alaska and 4 SZs between Eastern US and France
http://img233.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pacificve6.png
*Bering Sea - one proposal instead of the current new SZ for Bering Strait, removed SZ 62 access to Buryatia so you can only get from Alaska to Soviet Far East quickly but not Buryatia, new SZ becames Beaufort Sea instead
http://img98.imageshack.us/my.php?image=beringon2.png
*practical tiny Trans-Jordon - border with Egypt can be moved west, its probably larger than necessary to show Eygpt control of canal, move border a bit west and we have you more room to put units
*India - your previous reason for not dividing India might be no longer valid between of the massive middle east split up
*close Altantic to Sahara - Rio De Oro extend North to prevent amphibious assault on Sahara from Altantic
http://img216.imageshack.us/my.php?image=riodeorota5.png
The problem with T-J is caused by the projection; this is a good effort at portraying it . The thing that makes it look wrong is the absence of the gulf of Aqaba, and thus T-J having no Red Sea port (Aqaba). Leave Sinai as it is, it’s taken me long enough to persuade IL to put it in Egypt!
Just noticed that Indo-China is too far east, Hainan island was part of China. Move the border west, but the top bit needs expanding to prevent a Burma-Kwangtung border.
Labia still incorrect spelling.
Nigeria should have a border with FWA OR move FWA/FEA border to correct place (further east).
What I’d like to see next is a full listing of IPC values.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Redone ME with correct Greece border:
although looking again i should have moved the SZ border west to give Greece access to SZ 15
Eastfront without Moscow-in-Asia syndrome:
Poland truncated by necessity, 1939 border causes untidy East Prussia split. This is in essence the part of Poland constituting the GGP under German rule.
[attachment deleted by admin]
LMFAO!!!
flashman co-oped my map!!!
ROTFL!!!
Libya was fixed 20 drafts ago.
I will shift Hawaii and add marianias and lower midway.
I am making the iraq/iran coastline more equal.
some other new changes today.
although looking again i should have moved the SZ border west to give Greece access to SZ 15
perhaps, but the idea was to allow italy the opportunity to protect axis coastline with 14 and keep the 15th is allied control. If you look historically italy has 1 SZ and allies have 2 in medd.
Poland truncated by necessity, 1939 border causes untidy East Prussia split. This is in essence the part of Poland constituting the GGP under German rule.
i allready fixed this or came up with a solution of a dotted white line which is unigue allowing co-habitation and non-conforming split of Poland and Germany for different parties.
Just noticed that Indo-China is too far east, Hainan island was part of China. Move the border west, but the top bit needs expanding to prevent a Burma-Kwangtung border.
this was also fixed… ahh but you missed belgium congo!. That was recolored orange like Benelux
Sorry, but I have to go by the last map you posted and this still shows “Lybya”. I was going to point out the Belgian Congo thing, but since the territory so named is actually more co-terminous with the southern half of FEA I assumed it was a composite territory given to France.
While we’re at it, what happened to Kenya/Uganda, which appears to have been absorbed into IEA. Give them back to Blighty! (merge them with Tanganyika = BEA.)
Map clip to follow…
There, that’s roughly how it should look. One question here is over the “Kabinda strip” part of Angola. My approach is to merge it with Angola propper to cut Belgian Congo off from the sea, and on my map BC then becomes a land-locked and impassable jungle.
Incidentally if you place the correct FWA/FEA border it will make FWA rather large.
Solution = move the Sahara further south to cover the top half of FWA and - yes! - give R de O a land border with Algeria/Morocco. Oh, yes: fame at last.
Now you can consider if the Sahara needs dividing (if you have a rule allowing crossings), and if you wish to divide “Algeria” into Morocco and Algeria. If not, it would actually be better as French North Africa.
[attachment deleted by admin]
OK hers the latest draft…
I made a bunch of new changes.
Tekkyy i dont like that barent sea idea because your new SZ is a useless SZ, and secondly it does not give either side a buffer to protect the land.
the other things except Rio de oro i also changed. The Sahara is not invadable and mountain territories will be limited to 2 land units invading per sea zone. Making Rio further note is not accurate. the sahara territory includes the southern half of Algeria, Morroco, Lybia, and Eqypt and moving Rio further north makes it into morroco/algeria territory.
Other changes were made that nobody even pointed out …yet.
http://www.mediafire.com/?6hnsomrzy3m
http://www.mediafire.com/upload_complete.php?id=dmdpeqzsb1d
also fixed iran coastline
Adlertag. look at AARHE rules and work within these rules for 1939 modification. what forces should the new neutrals have???
where are these new diplomatic starting levels. Our system is best .use it.
Brief summary of what’s still wrong with the map:
1. East Germany/West Poland/East Poland/White Russia/West Russia/Moscow all one space too far east, no Pripet marsh
2. Sahara desert too far north, no Morocco. I didn’t say move Rio north, but move Sahara and Algeria south to form Morocco.
3. No Gulf of Aqaba, therefore no T-J/Red Sea access
4. Only one India, too easy for Japan to conquer
5. Bulgaria has Aegean coastline
6. Territory marked “French Equatorial Africa” is Niger which was in F.WEST.Africa.
7. Nigeria shrivelled - needs border with FWA
8. Kenya and Uganda in Italian East Africa
9. Hopei should be Japanese held
10. Capital of Kwangtung should be Nanking
Getting……there…slowly…
Also suggest rejig of Siberia viz:
extend Buryatia to border Novosibirsk
make eastern half of Buryatia “Amur” province.
[attachment deleted by admin]
1. East Germany/West Poland/East Poland/White Russia/West Russia/Moscow all one space too far east, no Pripet marsh
This is still under revised AA Pripet Marsh is too small for representation and we don’t represent Marsh in AARHE It also wasnt a major issue in ww2 other than somewhat limited mobility but we have 6 month turns and in that scale its meaningless.
2. Sahara desert too far north, no Morocco. I didn’t say move Rio north, but move Sahara and Algeria south to form Morocco.
Its fine the way it is. its also looking more like revised and we need some things to stay the same
3. No Gulf of Aqaba, therefore no T-J/Red Sea access
don’t need it its not important
4. Only one India, too easy for Japan to conquer
No its harder because if it was different territories the british would have the spread out, while the Japs can pick and choose where they want to destroy.
5. Bulgaria has Aegean coastline
it has its own
6. Territory marked “French Equatorial Africa” is Niger which was in F.WEST.Africa.
fixed made a mistake.
7. Nigeria shrivelled - needs border with FWA
its fixed under #6. i accidentally put the font in the wrong place.
8. Kenya and Uganda in Italian East Africa
They wont be represented and you know this. If anything its Ethiopia and Italian Somaliland
9. Hopei should be Japanese held
I already told you thats its also like 3 other territories of which Japan didn’t conquer by this time. Its just a name to represent a much larger territory. China has many territories not only 6. please look at a map from this period.
10. Capital of Kwangtung should be Nanking
This map does not represent only capitals…it represents only major important cities which may or may not be capitals. Nanking was under Japans control in 1937 so its not even accurate.
