Hypothetical German 1 Move

@Pherman1215:

There are no early victories in A&A revised.  Plan on winning the long game.  Buy lots of infantry and find a way to equalize the IPC production.  The best way to do this is take Africa, but Northern Russia and Caucasus are another way to do this.

I do disagree.

Rare it may be, but there’s at least one way for Germany to try to finish Russia as quickly as possible on Revised - with a 8/9 bid place 1 inf/art on Belorussia and 1 armor in E. Europe and pray that the Russians have at least average losses while attacking West Russia and any other territories. On G1 buy 8 armor and hit the Russian stack on West Russia with everything that can hit it and send everything towards Russia (including the inf and armor on Libya to Ukraine). Afterwards pray for decent dice and that the UK/US doesn’t land too soon in Europe.

@gnasape:

Instead of doing too much, it might be advisable to hit W Rus hard with 10 inf, 2 art, 3 arm, 2 ftr, and create deadzones all around and trade territories with Germany until the reinforcements arrive.

This is usually what I do, and with a 3 inf, 3 arm buy you immediately have 7 armor which should be close to matching Germany and should prevent a German move to either Kar or Ukr for several rds.  You can follow up in rd 2 with 4 inf, 1 rt, 2 arm and your overall offensive units start to look pretty impressive:  3 rt, 9 arm, 2 ftrs.

Great stuff.  Sure makes the game a heck of a lot more interesting!  I am in the midst of trying this, and interestingly, Russia broke it’s back on my stack trying to be the first one to strike.  Should have been a fairly even fight, but they got diced a bit and their front lines are smashed but left me with 8 tanks and a few guys in EE.

Still though, Allies have 6 transports in immediate play in europe and you have to keep a heck of a lot back to protect WE, Germany, an EE.

Now, extra German planes in the mid-game can be a good investment against a balanced, slow KGF if Allies don’t have excess escorts. They already defend where they are almost like 2 more inf (6 IPC), also threaten 1-2 fleets that will need extra escorts, and swap easier on land. Combined with the Japanese fleet coming throught the Med, they can paralyze the Allied moves sandwiched between each of them.
But, that’s not ships, but anti-ship build…

@Romulus:

IC in India may fall in Japanese hands if it is not backed up by an Allied Pacific strategy, at least an SJF. If UK place IC in India and goes after Germany it will have less IPCs to spend in UK, this means less quantity and less quality in the UK forces that face Germany.

The same reasoning applies to German CV. Building German CV means less ground units to press on Russia.

I think the better move to avoid India IC is to build all ground units with Germany and increase the pressure on Russia. If UK builds the IC in India then Russia will receive less help from the British.

I see your point… 
I’m not sure that some of my F2F opponents are smart enough to realize that!!    :lol: :lol:

@U-505:

The goal isn’t to discourage an attack on Ukraine, but to encourage one for the aggressive Russian players.

The person who played the bid, switch, said this:

It spooks the Russians, so they only attack ONE territory, West Russia.  Germany saves not only the FIG in Ukraine, but the 3 INF, the ART, and the ARM as well.

Sure sounds to me like one of his goals was to discourage an attack on the Ukraine.  Which it does, but only by encouraging a WR/Belo attack which is basically just as good for Russia as a no-bid WR/Ukraine attack would be.

@U-505:

With 2 inf in WR the Ukraine/WR attack gets pretty risky especially in WR.

I agree, and I would not do a Ukraine/WR opening if Germnay placed 2 bid Inf in WR.  I would do a WR/Belo opening though, and be only down 1-2 Inf, on avg, from what I would be if those 2 Inf from the bid had not been placed.  Killing one or two Inf in WR is not a very good return on investment for your 6 IPC bid.

@U-505:

2 inf in Ukraine doesn’t present any dilemma for the Russians. Belo/WR can go on just as if those inf were placed in Libya.

Yep, they can attack Belo/WR.  But the difference, as compared to placing 2 Inf in Libya, is that Germany has 2 extra Inf on the front lines in Europe to play with on G1.  I’m not saying 2 Inf in Ukraine is a great bid either, but it is a heck of a lot better than 2 Inf in WR.  Actually, 2 Inf in Belo might be the best bid if you are going to place your bid on the front lines in Europe.  If Russia attacks WR/Belo, it has to commit a tank which will be killed in the attack or the G1 counter, plus all that nifty hardware in the Ukraine gets to live.  If Russia goes WR/Ukraine, Gemany has plenty of fodder in Belo to punish Russia with if the WR attack goes bad.  And I’ve seen the WR attack go bad (as in all but 3-4 of the Russian Inf are killed) a few times on WR/Ukraine openings.

@U-505:

The problem is that WR has to be attacked on R1 no matter what. By adding the bid to the territory that ALWAYS gets attacked you put the pressure on the secondary territory. Either you make the secondary attack with the minimum amount of units or run the risk of taking a beating in WR. The risk may be high enough to a conservative player that both Belo and Ukraine aren’t attacked which provides immediate value.

2 Inf in WR would not change what I attack Belo with at all (3 Inf, 2 Fighters) and it does not make it very likely I will take a beating in WR.  I agree that if it does convince a player to only attack WR, it is worth it.  But I think such a player is making a poor choice, and I don’t like to base my strategies on hoping my oppenent will make a poor choice.  If Russia responds wisely to that bid by attacking WR/Belo, then the bid basically bought Germany nothing.

@U-505:

Attacking WR/Belo is probably the best move …. [but] it becomes entirely likely that a good defense in Belo coupled with the extra unit or units Russia lost in WR gives the German player an opportunity to counterattack WR with a good deal of firepower. Even if it costs you a lost fighter to AA, smashing the Russian vanguard might be the right play to make. And if you don’t counterattack WR, at the very least it will give you Caucasus for a turn.

3 inf/2 Fig vs. 3 Inf in Belo results in Russia taking the land 70+% of the time and at least clearing it with both fighters living another 20% of the time.  Not much room for a great defense there.  And if the WR attack does go poorly, which is not likely either, Russia can always fortify WR with Inf from the Caucus.  Sure, that may leave the Caucus a little weak, but getting Germany to overextend by taking it on G1 is not really a bad thing for the Russians.  (as long as they make damn sure to retake on R2)

@Amon-Sul:

Germany has a sub in the North Sea and AC with two figters in Baltic
UK has 1 bat and 5 subs in North Atlantic Seazone

is it possible for UK to attack German sub in North Sea with its 2 subs,  and then attack German fleet i Baltic with 1 bat and 3 subs

No, you can’t do that for the reasons stated already.  But note that the UK subs can sail right through (or rather, under) the German sub in the North Sea to attack the Baltic.

So the UK could attack the Baltic with up to 5 subs (plus air if available) and attack the North Sea sub with the BB (plus any subs not attacking the Baltic, plus air if available).

Follow-Up thoughts on Russia…

A slight modification to my earlier post… only 3 ARM to West Russia, the 4th (from Russia) non-combat moves to Yakut.  This gives you offensive punch with those 8 INF you have in Bury and Yakut against Japan.

AFter taking West Russia and Belorussia (and then losing Belorussia), Russia should focus on taking Ukraine.  This is a tough area for Germahy to get forces to, shields your Caucuses IC nicely, and is worth more IPC’s than most other territories in the battle zone.

Now here comes the challenging part…
If Japan is pressuring in Northern Asia, and has killed a lot of your forces in Bury, start moving INF from Russia east via Novo (they can then either go to Yakut or Sinkiang as needed).  But if Japan is also pushing through India, start sending tropps into Kazakh from Russia.

You will need your Caucuses built forces for Ukriane, so to reinforce in the Middle East you need to use the Russia built forces.  Start sending them via Kazakh (in case you need to divert any to Sinkiang along the way), and then to Persia (if still held by the Allies) to shield Caucuses from a southern strike by Japan.

If Japan is NOT pressing, then you can use the Russia built forces to move into Archangel to start rebuilding your northern defense, to reinforce the West Russia Stack, or to allow you to add 8 INF to Caucuses (4 from Russia, 4 from the build).