Definitely. Also if Germany had decided to ONLY go against the Soviet Union at the very beginning, I’m sure most of the Western Powers would have been just fine to let them go right at it! The USSR wasn’t very well received amongst the rest of the world in 1939; in fact, it took WWII to raise Russia to a world superpower from the outcast backwater it was in the 1930’s.
Everyone is assuming that the beginning of the war between Germany and the USSR would play out as it did in the summer of 1941. Had Germany faced a Red Army prepared on the German/Russian border the results of 1941 may have been different.
@ABWorsham:
Everyone is assuming that the beginning of the war between Germany and the USSR would play out as it did in the summer of 1941. Had Germany faced a Red Army prepared on the German/Russian border the results of 1941 may have been different.
I think it would not matter…The Germans learned from their mistakes in poland really quick and the involvement of Division Brandenburg was a big plus, too…at this time the russians still thought that Tanks have only a secondary role…Do not forget that in allready 1 and 1/2 week the German Luftwaffe had air superiority…Even if Russia would have prepared for war ,(what they kinda did) it wouldn’t be like a defence into the deep and tank regiments split up all over the front…
The Germans had great praise for the hardiness of the common Soviet soilder. The hardships of the hammer and sickle bred good fighters. The Germans had better units, no doubt, however the U.S.S.R had millions of tough volka drinking men. Don’t confuse the Czarist army with that of the Soviet Red Army.
I’m aware of what you mean, but if you read the battles won by Germany in Stalino,Mariupol,Kiev and Sevastopol and so on ,considerations like -what would have happend against an prepared enemy? wouldn’t come up at all, I’m anyway wondering why nobody in here is not talking about certain battles where a diffrent outcome would have changed a lot more…fact based…for example the pocket of crementshug '44, uman encirclement '41, charkov '43 & '44 ,Falaise '44 Caen’44 tons of places wich could change a lot or only slightliest even certain characters like Timoshenkov,Nikita Khrushchev,Zhukov,Patton,Monty,Bradly, Pappa Hauser,Panzer Mayer and so on I don’t know…I don’t mean to be rude but philosophing about whether or not the american would join europe theatre in a question yet where all the people in here haven’t Identified what they know about Pacific and european theatre war leads probably to those missunderstandings where point blank somebody puts his opinion in and somebody else takes it too serious and arguing over and over about it…No offence like I said just wish to talk the talk and not to circumsize the fact and mix it up w. 2009…
I appologize for any hurt feelings sorry but I had to let it out!..
@aequitas:
I’m aware of what you mean, but if you read the battles won by Germany in Stalino,Mariupol,Kiev and Sevastopol and so on ,considerations like -what would have happend against an prepared enemy? wouldn’t come up at all, I’m anyway wondering why nobody in here is not talking about certain battles where a diffrent outcome would have changed a lot more…fact based…for example the pocket of crementshug '44, uman encirclement '41, charkov '43 & '44 ,Falaise '44 Caen’44 tons of places wich could change a lot or only slightliest even certain characters like Timoshenkov,Nikita Khrushchev,Zhukov,Patton,Monty,Bradly, Pappa Hauser,Panzer Mayer and so on I don’t know…I don’t mean to be rude but philosophing about whether or not the american would join europe theatre in a question yet where all the people in here haven’t Identified what they know about Pacific and european theatre war leads probably to those missunderstandings where point blank somebody puts his opinion in and somebody else takes it too serious and arguing over and over about it…No offence like I said just wish to talk the talk and not to circumsize the fact and mix it up w. 2009…
I appologize for any hurt feelings sorry but I had to let it out!..
No problem here, I just like keeping a great topic alive.
I think Germany would win…eventually. It would cost them a tremendous amount of troops. They would be exhausted and depleted.
I watched part of a history channel, Battle of Stalingrad and they pointed out that the German troops were wearing summer uniform compared to the winter gear that the Russians had. I wonder how many German troops were lost due to the weather.
Hundreds of Thousands of troops.
I vote Russia due to manpower and the harsh weather.
@ABWorsham:
Hundreds of Thousands of troops.
IF Italy had not screwed up so badly they wouldnt have cost the germans time…which led them to invade during the wrong time of year.
IF Italy had not screwed up so badly they wouldnt have cost the germans time…which led them to invade during the wrong time of year.
That’s a good poll question.
thanks! I have no clue how to start those though
Invaded Russia too early and in the wrong month.
he got sidetracked trying to take Stalingrad etc.
Coulda woulda but yes, he could of taken Russia.
Germany could of taken Britain too, if Hitler let his Generals run the war.
Good thing for Hiltler’s blunders.
@marine36:
But you see, Roosevelt wanted war with Germany, to help his buddy Stalin, so it would have happened eventually.
And I do believe the Tommies whipped Rommel all by there lonesome at El Alamean, though it is doubtful such success would have lasted once he got back to Tunisia and was reinforced.
The 6th Army. Yes, it was a significant number of men. A quarter of a million Germans is nothing to sneeze at! Personally, I don’t think moral is a factor in modern warfare, at least it isnt in the Corp, but you may be right there as well. It is reasonable to assume that the German soldiers are different from U.S. Marines, and are still affected by moral.
Rampant behavior of rape and murder? I am certain SS divisions maintained their dicipline in Russia, it was not until after the fighting had ended in an area and the soldiers had moved on than Himmler would move in with his death squads. The men of the SS where fine soldiers, do not label all of them barbarians for the actions of Himmler. Perhaps you have information that proves otherwise? Well, despite Himmler’s ruthless treatment of Russians, many Russians still did side with the Germans.
the SS were bastards, the waffen-SS were just foreigners. Can understand them a bit: who doesn’t hate RUSSIAN communists?
