We should not attack Iraq

@Yanny:

Lebanon/Egypt/Syria/Jorden (not counting Palestine here)

#5 is more of my speculation. In the first few weeks when Israel invaded Ramallaah and kept Arafat stuck in his compound, President Busch was being odd. Every few hours he would change his opinion, at first being very very strong against the Israelis, then the next day doing a complete 180 and being tough verse Arafat. Eventually he just ignored Arafat (while he was stuck in his compound, unable to do anything) and sided with Israel.

We do not give anything Israel citizens need to survive to Israel. We give them 3 billion in weapons.

If we had not been involved so heavily with Israel, the terrorists would never of attacked us.

It says a lot about Israelis if they elected Sharon. Hell, they had a Prime Minister lobby for peace!! And they impeached him (or whatever the Israeli word for that is).

I have nothing against the Israeli people. I don’t think you should pack up and leave. But your just inviting violence by occupying the West Bank, Golan Heights, and Gaza Strip. Yes, its a military occupation. A dictatorship over a smaller country.

Sharon is for peace, it’s simply his method of achieving peace that is different from Barak’s. Also, you are making it sound like Sharon is like hte President of the United States in that he makes all the decisions. He does not. He has to make them with the Israle parliament, and they have threatened to break down his coalition government several times and may actually do so if he is not careful with his policies. The occupation of the West Bank, Faza, and the Golan Heighets could have been settled back in 1967, if the Arabs had wanted to negotiate. Also, the Palestinians dont just want those areas, but rather the entire land for themselves. By the way, there are no problems with the Palestinians in the Golan Heights. It’s the Syrians who want the Golan Heights back, but they refuse to negotiate until Israel unilaterally withdraws, which is not possible, especially not after what the results were iin Lebanon.

Osama and the terrorists that are attacking the United States are attacking it for a somewhat different reason than Israel. THey are attacking America for appearing to want to be imperialistic in the Middle East, for actions in the Gulf War specifically. These Arabs despise capitalism, because America is rich and has left the Arab countries poor. That’s why the attack was on the World Trade Centre. It represented America’s capitalistic economy and that’s what Bin Laden wanted to destroy.

@Yanny:

Israel currently occupies 100% of Palestine. The Palestinians would be happy for 22%.

Israel attacked first in 67! It was a pre-emptive strike, yes, but so was Pearl Harbor.

Sharon for peace? Ha! Sharon would make a great dictator. He’s worse than Arafat (who, I admit, is a horrible leader).

I hate to tell you this, Yanny, but there is no Palestine and there never was a Palestine. The attack in 1967 is hotly debated, but it is generally agreed upon by everyone that the Arbs started the six Day war of 1967. Even they agree to it.

Yanny Said:

1. The Israelis violate more UN resolutions than even the Us.
2. The Israelis have been occupying parts of 4 countries over 30 years.
3. The Israelis waste more of my tax dollars than any other country.
4. If Israel wouldn’t be there, the Twin Towers would.
5. Israel practically has our Goverment under it’s control. I suspect Blackmail.
6. Israel is ultra-conservative. I hate conservatives.
7. Israel is a Theocracy.
8. Israel killed a great friend of mine.

I fell out of my chair when i read this. Swear to god.

1. Stupid rules are meant to be broken. If the U.N. told us not to attack a group of people, we would tell em to go pound sand.
2. “Occipied” i love it. How dare they “Occupy” land that they have taken in wars with other nations. In fact how dare we “Occupy” California and Texas.
3. Ok, i got nothing about taxes.
4. The twin towers comment. Rabid anti semitism(spelling?). I am a Catholic and was stunned by that. Facts…
6. You hate conservatives. Ya should never judge the whole the those you have met. Those you judge the group by the whole are nothing but a pea wit.
7. Israel is a theocracy. I got nothing.
8. How did the country kill a friend of yours?

Yanny said:

Israel currently occupies 100% of Palestine. The Palestinians would be happy for 22%.

Israel attacked first in 67! It was a pre-emptive strike, yes, but so was Pearl Harbor.

How can you occupy 100%of a non-existant country? Why dont they occupy the marry ol’ land of Oz next. They would not be happy with 22% because they were offered 96% and turned it down.

Saying that the Israel strike in 67 was the same as the Japanese in WWII is cooky. I did not now that goal of the Israeli attack was to expand the empire for the emporer like the Japanese did. Was the United States massing troops along our border with Japan when they attacked us? Show us how they are similar.

You had better say the same about the British. After all they attacked the French fleet in WWII.

Comparing Israel to Japan is like comparing apples to oranges…

It would be nice if there were never wars and borders never changed, but it does happen.

I dont think Gaza and the West bank are mine, I think they belong to Israel. Cause they do. It is not a different country because Palistine is not a county.

What does the cold war have to do with anything? I wasn’t alive durring the cold war. And the fact that you presume to know the reasons why I like or dislike something is ludacris.

I am sorry your friend was shot but that is no excuse to hate an entire country. My great uncle survived the Bataan Death March and yet I manage to make through my daily life without hating Japan.

Out of curiosity, how did it happen? Was he walking down the street and get hit by a stray bullet or what?_________________

I dont have info on the inner workings of the Israeli government so i cant comment on that.

As for your other analogy, i do like it better. :)

@Yanny:

All his family told me was he was outside taking pictures of their ruined house when it happened.

If Israel considers the West Bank and Gaza theirs, why do they treat the Palestinians living there as second class citizens? They literally have no rights. They are forced to stay into their house 20 hours a day. They cannot vote, their tax money doesn’t do anything for them, it just helps Israel. Their democratically elected leader is constantly under fire.

You don’t like the Pearl harbor comparison, ok. Israel treats the West Bank as Russia treated Ukraine.

Democracy in Islam? You have no clue what you’re talking about. Yasser Arafat wasn’t elected by anyone. The reason the Palestinians cannot vote is because they are not Israeli citiznes, but rather Jordanian and Egyptian citizens. They are autonomous if you didn’t know. In the 1960s-1970s, the PA received control of some of their civil services and following the Oslo Accords, 97% of them were put under FULL PA control. If their lives are miserable, it’s Arafat’s fault. He has control over their daily lives and he is in charge of them. Israel does not treat the West Bank like Russia treated the Ukraine because the Ukrainians were Soviet citizens, and the Palestinians are not Israeli citizens. The Palestinians are autonomous, and the Ukrainians never were.

Good show Emu.

@Yanny:

Yassar Arafat has been elected twice. Once after the Oslo accords and once just a few months ago.

Either A) End the Occupation or B) Grant these “Foreign” citizens Israeli citizenship.

Diplomacy is about compromise. Your opinion wants everything.

The Palestinians received TWO offers giving them almost everything they wanted, one at Camp David and one at Taba.

The Taba Offer included:

-100% of Gaza
-95% of West Bank
-other 5% made up of ISraeli negev
-East Jerusalem
-Settlements removed

THe Palestinians REJECTED this offer because they don’t actually want a country. Check out what I posted on the other thread about things going bump in the night. The quotations there by British, American, Arab and even Palestinian leaders proves their true intentions.

I can see why letting Israel control the military aspect would be a good idea. They are the best military in the region after all.

@Yanny:

A) That offer was never put in writing. It was more of a promise by Barak (although I believe he would of kept the offer)

B) The right of return was not granted. Millions of refugees would not be allowed to return to their homes.

C) The treaty would let Israel control all military affairs.

D) Israel would control all major resources (mainly everything concerning the Jordon River)

No Yanny, you don’t seem to understnad. They call one of these things a proposal? Can you say proposal? Yes, very good. It means that it would be the basis for a final agreement which could be worked out. But the Palestinians rejected it without even giving a counter offer. And what right to return home are you talking about? If you’re talking about letting them go to Israel, then forget it. If they’re getting their own country, why would they go to a foreign one? Militarily, Israel has to be safe which means checkpoints and other forms of protection. As for the resources in the Jordan River, there would be agreements made like the ones between Israel and Jordan that would help in sharing the resources. It was put down on paaper and all the delegates that were at Taba know about the offer. It’s not like Barak called Arafat over the phone and promised it to him then.

@Yanny:

The Right of Return, after Jerusalem it is the main issue in the debate. Basically, over half a million Palestinians were literally kicked out of their homes. The friend who was shot who I keep refering to, his family was kicked out. The Right of Return would allow anyone who can prove that they lived there to either return or be compensated for their property.

I do not think that they should be able to return and be able to kick out those living there now. However, they should be paid for their property and extra for being kicked out.

They weren’t kickedo ut. They left by choice when the ARabs asked them to over Arab radio so they could make room for invading Arab armies. I posted a whole post confirming this and other things in a different thread and you never responded to it. So I’ll prove to you that they weren’t kick out with these quotes:

“The Jews haven’t attacked any Arab village, unless attacked first.”
-Ismayil SAfwat, Commander of Palestinian Operations, MArch, 1948.

“We brought destruction upon the [Palestinian] refugees, by calling on them to leave their homes.”
-Khaled Al-Azam, Syrian Prime Minister in 1949 (memoirs, 1973)

Cold hard proof Yanny. You can’t argue against what even the Arabs said. You have to see this for what it really is. The Arabs are trying to re-write history.

@Yanny:

Two quotes aren’t proof.

Do you think millions of Palestinians would leave their homes for a Refugee camp? Ever seen pictures of one, picture HELL. Mud up to your Knees, no clean water. They have turned into a permanent residence for over a million.

Firstly, it was 472,000 of them and that’s a UN estimate. They were told that they would be going to the Arab countries for the duration of the war, and then they would return to their homes and get the Jewish villages as well.

Secondly, 550,000 Jews were kicked out of their homes in Gaza and the West Bank by the invading Arab armies. Should their descendants not recieve the same right of return?

Thirdly, the Arabs places them in UN funded cmaps. It wasnt exactly their chocie when they arrived in the Arab dictatorships.