More on religion….

@balungaloaf:

they might as well settle.  why go to court, they’d lose anyways in LA.  you know LOS ANGELES.  LIBERAL TOWN.  if you go to court, it looks WORSE.  Jesus Christ.

Yes, and didn’t you just argue that liberal judges are lenient on pedophiles and rapists, presumably because they are liberal?
Make up your damn mind.

thats BS, you dont need proof to convict these priests all you need is the right jury, which you’d find in LA.

This shows you don’t know about jury selection.  Prosecutors AND defendants can object to any potential juror.

the question is……why isnt anyone suing these people?  they could…  but people only go after the church b/c of the $$$$$$.

I think it has to do more with who molested whom.
Besides, Jews have all the money (they love that stuff), and it would be logical to go after them first if you are just looking for a payout.

they’d do that b/c the church knows as soon as someone comes out with an allegation, the church is screwed.  its going to come down to a “they say, we say”  and the church will lose everyone of those hands down b/c the liar will go onto the stand and cry and put on theatrics for their big payoff at the end of the day.  It is the EASIEST way to a million dollars in america today.

That’s why the innocent defend themselves in a trial, or at least attempt to, and do not settle.
Actually, it won’t come down to a he said/she said, because the accusers will point to how the church mishandled the suspected abusers, and require the Church to release documents pertaining to the case.  The weight is on them because they didn’t address the situation appropriately for decades.  And now you see them, like you, saying “Well everyone else does it too!”  That’s a stand-up organization right there, you must be proud.

so they move the priest immediately hoping that no money shakedown will come, but the shakedowns come every time.  some times the priest has been a criminal, but again i’d say not half the time.
again, why dont these people try to put the priests in prison, where they belong if they did these things.  They put other molesters in prison, but not priests.  they only want millions of dollars.  660 million to be exact this time.

Some of these priests are dead.  And I think most people would feel it’s better to pay than spend time, so in that way, they ARE being lenient on the priests.  Any other pedophile/sex offender in this situation would have YOU calling for their head.  Again, hypocrisy.

a whole jury can be liberal idiots who hate the church.  they are in the big cities too.  and b/c the church settled didnt make the claims true.  its means they wanted the press to go away b/c the bad press hurts the church.  hurts them enough in liberal LA that they pay 660 million.  they want the little mexican kids feel like the priests there are friends, not pedophiles.  the media does its best to make people think all priests are bad nowadays.

If they wanted the press go away, why did they make a landmark settlement?  Why do they continue to comment on the case?
I think most people would agree that priests overall are good people trying to do good things.  This is why it’s so shocking that they molest kids, and you only hear about that.

i’d looooove to see the media even attempt to smear evangelicals the way they do priests.  and evangelicals have more reasons to smear them,  the pastors become stinking rich and its a farce.  but the evangelicals are a mean loud people, which scares the media.  catholics are quiet and humbe (except me) so they are easy pickings.

They have done so, it just got old, and they aren’t as prominent anymore.  The priest abuse cases are actually recent.

and switch, if they happened back in the 50’s……WHY didnt the accuser(s) bring it up for decades? ? ?

Why do some women not report rape?

i’ll answer that, b/c if they are liars just looking for money, there hasnt been a culture to get big payoffs until now.  so i think these so-called victims (sadly there might be a few honest victims)  but they would have been recent.  the so-called victims from the 50’s are liars in my opinion b/c they are old people and only would of been a child back in the 50’s.  they see an opportunity to get some cash for lies, so lie they do.  and instant cash is the reward.

I think the emotional scarring, abuse of trust, and general reaction to traumatic experiences explain this much better than your dumbass reason.

they had decades to bring up claims.  FUNNY how they show up only now when they can now get rediculous sums of money for accusations w/o proof.

Could it be that there was bias for the church, where they could do no wrong, and legitimate cases would be laughed away?  Yeah, I think so.
If you were raped by another man, balung, how quickly would you admit it?

@Amon-Sul:

and just to link to balungaloaf post, i am sure that pedofilia in protestant ˝clergy˝ is much more present than in catholic one, but never saw someone sued protestant community for 600 mil $. or Switch you want to say that they dont cover it…

You guys STILL can’t get over the schism, eh?

@balungaloaf:

no problem with the schism, we are still descendants of peter, while everyone else is not.  second, all the reasons people left have been fixed, except with the orthodox, but they are still cool.

My parents aren’t at all Catholic, and I’m definite peter was involved in my conception.  Just like everyone else.

@Jermofoot:

@balungaloaf:

no problem with the schism, we are still descendants of peter, while everyone else is not.  second, all the reasons people left have been fixed, except with the orthodox, but they are still cool.

My parents aren’t at all Catholic, and I’m definite peter was involved in my conception.  Just like everyone else.

well, i am not quite sure if i understand what you tried to say here but it seems to me you are insulting, big time

i dont judge you, but believe you in God or not, there is a line, and you have crossed way down it  :-(

and say what you want but beetwen protestant clergy and all other lay man, ateists…( besides muslims and some animalistic beliefs, so i dont affend them as i dont know them )  is much more in % number of pedofils, and deviant people than beetwen catholic clergy

i see you have hatred for Church and for it stands for as you simply cant accept it, that the Church will never give up on protecting the values that mean something, we are not perfect, we are a ˝bark that leaks on all sides˝, but as our Lord said to Peter  the gates of hell want overpower us, who are you to think you can  :x

the thing is that this priests should if they done anything wrong be sentenced to prison, to prison!!!

if not than all this thing is ridiculous, if its so, to insist on getting some money to ˝get even˝ something  and then not insisting on suing them, so they dont hurt nobody anymore, and that with strong punishments the number of these crime reduces

i would say its a pact with the devil
and the devil here is also in Churches lines, not just in USA, so you dont think i have anything against you

well, i am not supporter of death penalty, but ˝true˝ muslims countries dont have this problems, at least not as we do
thats why they grow and we decline, because they are the same as they used to be

and yes, i ll pray to God that he helps me, i find myself a sinner, and a weak mean,

and just one thing , i dont have anything against you, just against that what you ( sometimes, most of the time ) write and what you stand for, if you stand for something, indeed stand for something

Amon-Sul

@balungaloaf:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RMzA82H-Qo&mode=related&search=

the simpsons puts catholicism into perspective here.

well, the sound on my comp doesnt work so

Amon, the “peter” remark was not an insult, it was use of a slang term for the penis.

@ncscswitch:

Amon, the “peter” remark was not an insult, it was use of a slang term for the penis.

still, its on the verge of decent behaviour

i just didnt like the context
these debate has gone and is going in a wrong direction

if we are goin to do nothing than arguing than we are wastin our time

nobody still didnt told me why arent the accused priests accused for jail sentences, if they done something like these then there shouldn be any bargains, this is not theft, or something to do with money, the whole story doesnt have anthing with money, if they are guilty they should go to jail, and if Church failed to solve the problems then they can speak with the Chruch about  Church donating money to prevent this, or in some other charity

Criminal statute of limitations are still in effect (though in many areas, they have been repealed or lengthened dramatically as a result of the scandals of recent years, but the changes effect only NEW crimes).

So, up until about 5 years ago, child sexual abuse had to be charged within 2 to 3 years, after that charges could no longer be brought.

@ncscswitch:

So, up until about 5 years ago, child sexual abuse had to be charged within 2 to 3 years, after that charges could no longer be brought.

what kind of law is it?
God help us!

Statute of Limitations.  The United States (and many other nations) have a time limit on how long after a crime has occurred that it can be prosecuted in court.  There are a LOT of reasons why this is a good idea and is very valuable to our system, but I will not go into them here.

The only crime in the US that has NO statute of limitations is murder.  All other crimes, once a pre-set amount of time has passed, cannot be criminally charged.  Most crimes have a statute of limitations of from 2 to 5 years.

TRIALS can occur decades later, but the CHARGES have to be filed within the time frame allowed under the Statute of Limitations.

@Amon-Sul:

nobody still didnt told me why arent the accused priests accused for jail sentences, if they done something like these then there shouldn be any bargains, this is not theft, or something to do with money, the whole story doesnt have anthing with money, if they are guilty they should go to jail, and if Church failed to solve the problems then they can speak with the Chruch about  Church donating money to prevent this, or in some other charity

These holy men aren’t doing jail time because it’s far easier for the Catholic church to pay $660M than to have the broadcast media plastered with every Catholic diocese on TV for the length of the scandal and trial.

@ieatcrayons:

@Amon-Sul:

nobody still didnt told me why arent the accused priests accused for jail sentences, if they done something like these then there shouldn be any bargains, this is not theft, or something to do with money, the whole story doesnt have anthing with money, if they are guilty they should go to jail, and if Church failed to solve the problems then they can speak with the Chruch about  Church donating money to prevent this, or in some other charity

These holy men aren’t doing jail time because it’s far easier for the Catholic church to pay $660M than to have the broadcast media plastered with every Catholic diocese on TV for the length of the scandal and trial.

is it?

what kind of message is this, i think both conservatives and the libertarians wont be satisified with these, there is no victory if the responsible are not judged,

@Amon-Sul:

well, i am not quite sure if i understand what you tried to say here but it seems to me you are insulting, big time

I was using it in the sense that Switch describes, as a joke.

i dont judge you, but believe you in God or not, there is a line, and you have crossed way down it  :-(

Perhaps you don’t judge me, but your faith does.

and say what you want but beetwen protestant clergy and all other lay man, ateists…( besides muslims and some animalistic beliefs, so i dont affend them as i dont know them )  is much more in % number of pedofils, and deviant people than beetwen catholic clergy

It doesn’t matter - this is just distraction.
I don’t care who else does it, the Church needs to be responsible for their actions.  And they acted dishonorably for many years, so they pay.

i see you have hatred for Church and for it stands for as you simply cant accept it, that the Church will never give up on protecting the values that mean something, we are not perfect, we are a ˝bark that leaks on all sides˝, but as our Lord said to Peter  the gates of hell want overpower us, who are you to think you can  :x

I don’t care either way for the church, I wish more people tried to live like Jesus, but it’s people that ruin the faith, not the faith itself.
Funny that you should mention hell, because I don’t necessarily believe in it, but you are damning me for no other reason than I’m not in your stupid club.
And before you react to my stupid club statement, let me say that all faiths are stupid clubs, I can just tolerate some faiths and their adherents (or even individual people of various faiths) more than others.  I don’t see Switch criticizing my life…

the thing is that this priests should if they done anything wrong be sentenced to prison, to prison!!!

Except that some of them are dead, and this trial would go beyond single priests to how the Church mishandled the situation, knowing what was going on.

if not than all this thing is ridiculous, if its so, to insist on getting some money to ˝get even˝ something  and then not insisting on suing them, so they dont hurt nobody anymore, and that with strong punishments the number of these crime reduces

The Church chose to settle.
It’s a shame that money is the preferred medium of restitution, but I don’t know what result would be better.

i would say its a pact with the devil
and the devil here is also in Churches lines, not just in USA, so you dont think i have anything against you

Not at all, but think of this money as penance.

and yes, i ll pray to God that he helps me, i find myself a sinner, and a weak mean,

You do realize that you are doing this to yourself, don’t you?

and just one thing , i dont have anything against you, just against that what you ( sometimes, most of the time ) write and what you stand for, if you stand for something, indeed stand for something

Aren’t what I write, say, and stand for tantamount to me?

@Jermofoot:

Aren’t what I write, say, and stand for tantamount to me?

not quite, you see if you stand for something that is bad, or evil in its nature or if you support something that istn right and justice than i must condemn those actions and type of behaviour

what i tried to say is that i dont dislike you in a way that i would hatred is too strong word, i dont know the word

well, i could talk to you, and cooperate with you in some stuff even knowing your world view is opposite than my is,  afcorse only if/until you break the line and start insulting my God, faith, Country, family…

i didnt know how to quote paste everything you wrote so i just took this one

and neither me or my faith judges you, and you either said it from hatred towards the Church or from lack of knowledge, either way you should pair more attention to what you write

you have condemned yourself by yourself  :cry:

and if i get it right you arent for the idea that priests that made those crimes should be sentenced to jail sentences?

@Jermofoot:

@Amon-Sul:

and yes, i ll pray to God that he helps me, i find myself a sinner, and a weak mean,

You do realize that you are doing this to yourself, don’t you?

well i can see through your sarcasm, if i get it right,   i apologise if its because of my poor english that i get it wrong

@Jermofoot:

@Amon-Sul:

and say what you want but beetwen protestant clergy and all other lay man, ateists…( besides muslims and some animalistic beliefs, so i dont affend them as i dont know them )  is much more in % number of pedofils, and deviant people than beetwen catholic clergy

It doesn’t matter - this is just distraction.
I don’t care who else does it, the Church needs to be responsible for their actions.  And they acted dishonorably for many years, so they pay.

i see you have hatred for Church and for it stands for as you simply cant accept it, that the Church will never give up on protecting the values that mean something, we are not perfect, we are a ˝bark that leaks on all sides˝, but as our Lord said to Peter  the gates of hell want overpower us, who are you to think you can  :x

I don’t care either way for the church, I wish more people tried to live like Jesus, but it’s people that ruin the faith, not the faith itself.
Funny that you should mention hell, because I don’t necessarily believe in it, but you are damning me for no other reason than I’m not in your stupid club.
And before you react to my stupid club statement, let me say that all faiths are stupid clubs, I can just tolerate some faiths and their adherents (or even individual people of various faiths) more than others.  I don’t see Switch criticizing my life…

if i criticise you it was in good intentions, there is something called positive criticism, with desire to help
but last time i looked i wasnt even criticising your life, just your statements,  switch is a liberal but that doesnt mean i have anything against you or him beacuse you are an ˝ateist˝ and he is a liberal. but if i renounce for what i stand for, than its better that i am gone

and i am trying to do it in a way of not hurting and insulting anybody,  if i crossed that line than i apologise

but that still doesnt mean you can spit on everything that means something to me in my life, and when i condemn your actions you will just stay, but switch doesnt insults me or something like that

you know very easily how to criticise with bad intensions, and arent willing to accept positive criticism, well sorry but it isnt right :?

@Jermofoot:

i see you have hatred for Church and for it stands for as you simply cant accept it, that the Church will never give up on protecting the values that mean something, we are not perfect, we are a ˝bark that leaks on all sides˝, but as our Lord said to Peter  the gates of hell want overpower us, who are you to think you can  :x

I don’t care either way for the church, I wish more people tried to live like Jesus, but it’s people that ruin the faith, not the faith itself.
Funny that you should mention hell, because I don’t necessarily believe in it, but you are damning me for no other reason than I’m not in your stupid club.
And before you react to my stupid club statement, let me say that all faiths are stupid clubs, I can just tolerate some faiths and their adherents (or even individual people of various faiths) more than others.  I don’t see Switch criticizing my life…

well, now you tryin to say you want to insult all religious communities, that it isnt just Catholic Church,  well you are an ˝ateist˝ and i wouldnt call your ˝ateist˝ club stupid unless your only goal is to fight the true moral values for what Church and some other stand for, and i still dont know you that much that i can say it for you, but even still i wouldn insult you, at least i would try not to as its in the tendencies of my faith, to respect the dignity of every man

and i didnt mentioned hell beacuse of you, nor trying to link you with it, it was a quotiation from The Bible

@Jermofoot:

I wish more people tried to live like Jesus, but it’s people that ruin the faith, not the faith itself.

well i dont totally agree with this one but its a start  :-) :-) :-)

@Amon-Sul:

not quite, you see if you stand for something that is bad, or evil in its nature or if you support something that istn right and justice than i must condemn those actions and type of behaviour

Nothing is evil in nature: it is what it is, and humans try to attribute/give it meaning in someway by calling it good or evil.  It’s a concept made by man.

well, i could talk to you, and cooperate with you in some stuff even knowing your world view is opposite than my is,  afcorse only if/until you break the line and start insulting my God, faith, Country, family…

Of course, that is the only way, but I don’t insult anyone deliberately, unless, perhaps, they deserve it.

and neither me or my faith judges you, and you either said it from hatred towards the Church or from lack of knowledge, either way you should pair more attention to what you write

Of course you have, as well as your faith.  I’m an atheist, by your admission, automatically resigning me to hell, according to your faith.

you have condemned yourself by yourself  :cry:

I force people of your or similar faiths to tell me to go to hell?

and if i get it right you arent for the idea that priests that made those crimes should be sentenced to jail sentences?

No, I’m all for it, if possible.  But this case wasn’t against the priests, it was against the diocese for failing to act appropriately with its own priests’ actions.

@Amon-Sul:

well i can see through your sarcasm, if i get it right,  i apologise if its because of my poor english that i get it wrong

No sarcasm intended.
I was saying that the guilt is yours alone, brought upon your own expectations, and whether you actions met those expectations or not.
There is no God punishing you or forcing you to seek redemption - you do this on your own, from your own beliefs.  Had you been raised an atheist, reality would be the same way, just possibly your expectations, actions, and feelings about them might be different.
There is a God, because you think there is a God, but that doesn’t mean God exists universally.

@Amon-Sul:

and say what you want but beetwen protestant clergy and all other lay man, ateists…( besides muslims and some animalistic beliefs, so i dont affend them as i dont know them )  is much more in % number of pedofils, and deviant people than beetwen catholic clergy

It doesn’t matter - this is just distraction.
I don’t care who else does it, the Church needs to be responsible for their actions.  And they acted dishonorably for many years, so they pay.

if i criticise you it was in good intentions, there is something called positive criticism, with desire to help
but last time i looked i wasnt even criticising your life, just your statements,  switch is a liberal but that doesnt mean i have anything against you or him beacuse you are an ˝ateist˝ and he is a liberal. but if i renounce for what i stand for, than its better that i am gone

Actually, I don’t think you’ve really criticized me, I was meaning “you” in the sense of Catholics in general, as opposed to Switch, whose faith is non-Christian.  How do you know Switch isn’t an atheist?

and i am trying to do it in a way of not hurting and insulting anybody,  if i crossed that line than i apologise

No apology necessary as you haven’t insulted me.  balung bashes me quite a few times a day, at least indirectly, and I don’t require an apology from him.  You wouldn’t be the first to criticize me anyway.

but that still doesnt mean you can spit on everything that means something to me in my life, and when i condemn your actions you will just stay, but switch doesnt insults me or something like that

I’ve hardly spit on anything.
Your view is that your belief is correct, normal, preferred.  Excuse me if I feel annoyed that I find this belief to be wrong & conceited.

you know very easily how to criticise with bad intensions, and arent willing to accept positive criticism, well sorry but it isnt right :?

You are confusing snark with a desire to destroy.  I gladly will accept positive criticism, but if you are suggesting I convert, then no thanks.

@Amon-Sul:

well, know you tryin to say you want to insult all religious communities, that it isnt just Catholic Church,  well you are an ˝ateist˝ and i wouldnt call your ˝ateist˝ club stupid unless your only goal is to fight the true moral values for what Church and some other stand for, and i still dont know you that much that i can say it for you, but even still i wouldn insult you, at least i would try not to as its in the tendencies of my faith, to respect the dignity of every man

and i didnt mentioned hell beacuse of you, nor trying to link you with it, it was a quotiation from The Bible

Atheism isn’t a club.  In fact, it’s the default belief/nonbelief.
Belief is voluntary, not a requirement.  I just find the thought of organized religion absurd, some less than others though.  What really bothers me is when a religion that is supposed to be about love, tolerance, all of humankind, damns other religions that tolerate, or damns people not associated with the organization.