German strategy for building AC

Jennifer:  Never seriously considered trannies in the Baltic.Â

Me, too.  Now this thread is truly on a parallel track with newpaintbrush’s.

newpaintbrush:  I assume that Germany DID hold Ukraine at the end of G1, but that Russia captured Ukraine on SU2.Â

Correct.

newpaintbrush:  But instead of attacking Karelia on G2, you COULD have attacked Archangel on G2

No, R (for Russia – punting on my “SU” designation! :-)) held Kar, Belo and W.Rus after R2.  Actually what I did G2 was attack Kar with 2inf 1ftr, wol.  I slow-played to allow more time to build up E.Eur, which had only 4inf 1art 5arm after G1, IIRC.  I felt I needed more inf before going into Kar with big stack.

newpaintbrush:  The trick is threatening Russia on the north and the south.

I wonder if I’m doing something wrong, because the numbers don’t add up for me to threaten both north and south.  After G3 I have ONE big stack in E.Eur:  10inf 1art 5arm, whereas R has big stacks in Cauc and W.Rus (combined 20inf 4art 4arm, IIRC).  I am trying to build up E.Eur, but that is the best I could do.  Anywhere I move my big stack could leave a void for R to exploit.  I need another turn for 12inf in Ger to advance.

newpaintbrush:  Hope you’re not talking about me

No, newpaintbrush, not you or really anyone in particular.  It’s just that I see so many posts from players who say they crush the Allies with this or that strategy but do not include the kinds of details I would need to understand their strategies, and that’s frustrating for me because I have never found a consistent way to do well with Germany, especially if Allies use KGF.  However, you, Darth, Nix, Jennifer, ncscswitch to name a few are very helpful with detailed advice! :-)

With that said, my AAR for today:  heading into J3 things are so-so for the Axis.  Panzers took all Africa except S.Afr, and Trans-Jordan fell, but Norway was lost, and R holds Ukr, Belo, W.Rus, Kar.  J has not hit its stride yet; just the simple move UK1 destroy J DD in SZ59 makes a significant impact on J’s early game! R3 took Sink back, so J has not made much headway.  IC in Kwang and 3trn in SZ61 should get things rolling soon.  UK has abandoned India, and US has all but abandoned Pacific due to KGF, so J should now expand.

Back to Germany: once I had a real navy, I wasn’t sure exactly what to do with it.  Don’t know if this was a huge mistake or not, but I decided to go for fleet unification.  G2 moved from SZ5 to SZ7; Russia went for block by moving sub to SZ12, preventing G3 unification in SZ13.  G3 moved SZ7 to SZ12, sinking sub wol.  1BB 1trn moved SZ15 to SZ13.  Can the Allies prevent unification?

Well, US has 1BB 1DD 3trn in SZ10, plus 4ftr from ACs in SZ8, so the Kriegsmarine will probably be sunk US3, albeit at a high price for the Americans.  The long-term consequences of that battle remain to be seen…

G starts with 23 Inf, 3 art, 9 tanks and 6 fighters in Europe.

Yes, but not all 23inf are in range to threaten Russia, and most players seem to advocate placing 3-4ftrs on WEur to discourage Allied incursions.

USSR just doesnt have the troops to “overrun” Germany.

Right, not “overrun” Germany but I’m just saying in the game I’m in now after G3 the Russians still outnumber my G inf almost 2-1 on the front lines.  Yes, Germany should catch up, but it takes time, primarily because I spent IPCs on naval units.  I just don’t see how I can prevent being placed in a 2-front war against Allies that know what they are doing.

Jennifer, please hold that thought for a second, I was replying to squirecam.

What are you buying???

To review, the basis for the thread was G1 1AC 12inf.  G2 I had only 38 IPCs due to sbr by UK, so I bought 8inf 1art 2arm.  G3 I bought 12inf 1arm, and I’ve only just finished UK3, so those 12inf are in Germany.  Due to attrition (e.g. taking back Ukraine G2 with 2inf 1ftr, taking Karel 2inf 1ftr, then losing those infantry to counter-attacks), I have only 10inf in E.Eur, 1inf in Balkans, Russia holds WRus, Ukr, Belo, Karel, UK holds Norway.  Believe me, I’ve tried, but I couldn’t do better than one big stack in EEur with 10inf 1art 5arm.  I’ve basically followed the moves ad described by experienced members of the forum who have played G1 1AC 12inf.  My goal is to see how that initial buy plays out, and not surprisingly it has led to an early Russian lead. :-)  But I am far from giving up hope!

Couldnt you bid for a Restricted Russia and then no longer need an axis bid?  How would that effect game play?

In the original A&A, restricted Russia was one way to make it a bit tougher on the Allies.  In Revised, I’m not sure I would want to play a Restricted Russia!  I agree with Nix.  WRus is too critical.

@DarthMaximus:

@Nix:

that would kill the Allies.

But on the topic of being outnumbered by Russia, NO BIG DEAL, why?  becuse you defend better then Russia can attack, he will most likley lack offensive punch.

Likewise, if Germany buys ships and Russia moves in to hold Ukr early it becomes very hard or costly (or both) to push them out.

Right, that’s what is about to happen to me if I don’t do something quick! :-o

@squirecam:

@goldenbearflyer:

Jennifer, please hold that thought for a second, I was replying to squirecam.

What are you buying???

To review, the basis for the thread was G1 1AC 12inf.  G2 I had only 38 IPCs due to sbr by UK, so I bought 8inf 1art 2arm. Â

1. I presume you have 5 fighters still. You do NOT need armor or artillery. You are trading Belo/Karelia/Ukr. This requires sacrificing INFANTRY, not armor. G2 buy should be as much INF as possible, with art/tank left over. In this case, 11 Inf, 1 armor.

2. A sea purchase usually causes UK to fear 2 things, invasion and merger. I dont think you tried to merge. So the AC by itself wont stop the UK/USA from gathering to destroy you (as you are finding out). If you build an AC you must threaten to do something substantial with it.

3. see post above. USSR cant have the O power to defeat your D strength… (or wouldn’t with all INF buys)

4. Trying to follow a “script”, even a “master’s” usually results in trouble. The best thing you can do is learn to think “outside the box”, experiment, and try to determine overall strategies and counters. Dont be tied down to one “set” way of doing things.

Squirecam

1. Yes, I have 3ftr WEur 2ftr on AC, 1ftr EEur.  I bot just 1art, with an extra IPC; that doesn’t hurt, it will help later when I attack.

2. Yes, on G2 and G3 I moved my naval units to attempt merge, but due to a block it cannot happen until G4 at earliest, if US navy doesn’t sink most of my fleet. :wink:

3. Russia has 4art 4arm 2ftr at the front lines, along with 20inf.  They don’t lack offensive punch.

4. Agreed.  This is only my third game of Revised, so this whole German AC approach is new and outside the box for me.  You’re basically reading my thoughts expressed as AAR (after action reports) turn by turn as I discover how this works. :-)

@squirecam:

You need to Merge G2. Merging G4 is way too late.

Squirecam

I understand, but there are consequences to that approach, too.  First, I might have even less inf in EEur unless I had used the trn G2 to move 2inf.  (That goes back to a mistake of having left 3inf in Balk after G1.)  Second, G2 I used SZ15 to add more troops to the middle east.  Perhaps another mistake, but there it is.

This is starting to feel a bit like Risk, where a common strategy was to have one or two big stacks and leave next to nothing everywhere else!  I’ve got a lot to learn…

@Jennifer:

So what? Pull out of E. Europe and Balkans with Germany, leave 1 infantry there. Unify your fleet, force the Allies out of SZ 3, 6, 7, 8 and 12, then push the Russians back.

Pull out of EEur to where?