German strategy for building AC

@Kreuzfeld:

CVs are good. However, the reason DDs are bad, isn’t that it is a “bad” combatship if you plan on attacking. It is just that the TTs really are good combatships in the game. You will  usually have enough heavy ships surviving the first turn. Those ships combined with TTs will be enough to stop the luftwaffe. The TTs really are great combatships in this game. (seriously)

I understand that TTs are the best ship economy-wise, but I believe that a CV may be an extremely cost-efficient buy for the first turn only (because you have the two FTRs in UK that can land on the carrier no problem).  Later in the game the CV would become extremely cost-inefficient, of course (you’re paying 16 for a 1 HP 3 DEF when you could be spending that same 16 IPC for 2 HP of 1 DEF that can also transport units).

@Kreuzfeld:

I usually land in africa until my pacific fleet makes it to the atlantic. then I split and send uk into norway and start landing in the americans in europe the round after that.

Do you advocate sending the Indian Fleet south?  What do you do about the TT in SZ59?  When I used to play Revised/42/42SE I always remember going out of my way to eliminate it (as forcing Japan to buy more TTs is a good way to buy the allies precious time).

My purchase and exact unit allocation will depend on Russia’s move and how it went. I prefer to build only land units on G1. If I’m able to stack Karelia or Ukraine, I’ll build 2-3 tanks. No matter what, here’s what I attack in no particular order:

1. Gibraltar Battleship: sub, 3-4 fighters
2. Karelia: minimal force or full stack, depending on counterattack
3. Egypt: 2 inf, 2 tanks, maybe a fighter, bomber
4. East Med Destroyer: battleship, loaded transport, fighter

If Russia attacked Ukraine or Belorussia, I will always counterattack. An attack on Ukraine changes where I play my fighters. Attacking West Russia on G1 is a risky play that I’ll only consider if Russia had really lousy dice.

Fast answers?  Same day service isn’t fast enough?  I can’t stay on-line 24/7.  I do have a life, ya know!  :wink:

@newpaintbrush:

So are you saying that the Norway-Wrus-Ukr attack is bad for LL and for ADS for the SAME REASONS?  No, of course not.  See my last post.  Would you like to expound on the idea that what is good for ADS is good for LL and vice versa?  For I disagree.

My contention is that what is good in LL is good in ADS HOWEVER what is good in ADS may not be good in LL.
My point about the nor/wrus/ukr battle is that just b/c you may succeed in certian battles (either individual battles here and there or a few battles taken in the same turn) in LL way way way more in ADS does not make it a sound strategy for the entire game.  And I laid out just a couple of example where you could have high odds battles but it hurts you in the long run (the Moscow scenerio and the crazy ala move etc.)

It is much easier to translate LL strats to ADS.

I don’t think I said this triple would “inevitablely” fail in LL, I believe I said it “may” fail which in a way would confirm what the ADS odds told you in rd 1.
I certainly think there could be a coerrelation between LL odds and ADS odds.

Due to the nature of LL we know you can have a battle of a 100% success, which in ADS may be 90-95%.  I don’t think it is then unreasonable to think that multiple battles in LL where you have 80% success awould translate to maybe 65% in ADS.  Thus it isn’t unreasonable to think a LL battle with 60% success rate may then indeed be 40% in ADS (per your triple example).

So when playing a game in ADS if you have a threshold to actually go through with most battles (say you would like a 60-70% chance to succeed in ADS) that does not mean you’d have 60-70 in LL, the LL odds would probably be much closer to 80.  So when you see a battle at 40% success in ADS it should probably tell you that you have maybe 60% or so in LL BUT those AREN’T great odds for LL, considering you can be much more efficient in your attacks in LL.

60% odds are not that great for LL, considering the best LL players probably should win about 75-80% of their games.  Why lower your standards to 60%?  It just doesn’t make sense to me.  Maybe it is a good opening and causes enough damage to Germany, but I think it can leave Russia a bit too thin.

And yes there are times where 1-1 is a good trade and even times where you come out on the low end but the battle can still be deemed a success, but I don’t think Russia 1 is that time esp since the Axis can usually make an Africa push and Japan can make early gains in Asia, and it still takes the UK/US a few turns to get their shuck going.

Edit:

I should also say that by strat, I mean a series of moves (or buys) that take place over several turns not something a player may do in only one move or one turn.

@U-505:

I see no reason to use the bomber for SBR’s except when you are losing badly and you need to gamble. It is much more useful as a long range 4 based out of Southern Europe so it can threaten just about anything worth killing.

YES! the BOM is extremely versatile. I use it mainly in North Africa to support operations there and to give naval operations a boost. It never hurts to use it as ground support for a while and then when Germany starts to get a little fatter or thinner in the IPC realm then think about using it as an SBR. I’ve also found that using it in conjunction with submarines, depending on the game, is a great deterent to the US player wanting to use TRNs to invade N. Africa.

Just keep talking, keep a timer if need be, and remember you can pass notes in study hall if need be…

Without reinforcement, WEU falls to the Allies on Turn 2, and barring a re-direction of those massed ARM that HAD been going to Moscow being turned around and heading for Paris instead, the Allis will KEEP WEU for the remainder of the game.

Sink the British DD, then land an infantry and artillery in Anglo-Egypt as well as bringing up the units in Libya. If Russia sends a fighter to Anglo-Egypt on his first turn, then I would suggest sending the bomber from Germany.

edit: or fighter from Balkans or Ukraine.