Hey,
That sounds to me like the correct lawyer text book answer to our scenario. :-)
Excellent! So it goes like this:
1. Egypt starts off British.
2. Germany conquers it and builds the IC and AA, which are German.
3. Japan ships an AA gun to Egypt, which is Japanese in a German territory (use a national-control marker (NM) to indicate the Japanese AA while it is in a German-controlled territory).
4. US liberates Egypt. Egypt, the IC, and both AA guns turn British, but the Japanese AA keeps its NM, and the German AA gets a German NM underneath it. Britain has captured and controls those AA units like normal, the NMs are simply there as an indicator of which Axis power their control reverts to, should they be liberated by either Axis power.
4.5 UK retreats the AA guns to Moscow. Place a UK control marker underneat the AA gun with the German/Japanese control marker. How high can you build your AA gun with control markers? Maybe we should just play J-J-J-Jenga instead?
5. Japan retakes Egypt. Egypt, the IC, and the Japanese-marked AA become Japanese. You can remove the Japanese NM. The German-marked AA gun reverts to German control, and keeps its German NM.
- All of this assumes that all capitals are under the original nation’s control - it gets trickier when they aren’t.
… I think I might just mark my AA Guns with a little patch of colour to represent their ownership… would solve the problem of marking and unmarking using NMs, and you could just obey the following points:
a) When an AA is in its original owner’s territory, the original owner controls it.
b) When an AA is in a friendly territory, the original owner controls it.
c) When an AA is in an enemy-controlled territory, that enemy controls it.~Josh
Crazy. Never thought of that.
~Josh
I believe that AA guns revert to their ORIGINAL OWNER when liberated.
So if you had an AA gun that was produced by the Americans, that got captured by the Germans, if the UK captured the territory that that AA gun was in, control of the AA gun would go to the America player.
5. Japan retakes Egypt. Egypt, the IC, and the Japanese-marked AA become Japanese. You can remove the Japanese NM. The German-marked AA gun reverts to German control, and keeps its German NM.
- All of this assumes that all capitals are under the original nation’s control - it gets trickier when they aren’t.
I believe this is wrong. I don’t believe AAs retain thier nationality.
In this case both would become Japan’s, since Egy is an allied ter it would be treated as if UK had bought the IC and built 2 AAs of its own.
A similar situation can occur in Wrus. Say Russia moves an AA there to defend but Germany takes it, claims the AA, then UK counters and wins the AA on the UK turn. The AA does not revert back to Russia (b/c the ter was German to start the game), all Russian control was lost once Germany recalimed Wrus.
Had this taken place on Arch, then the AA would revert back to Russian control with the UK liberation.
I believe this is wrong. I don’t believe AAs retain thier nationality.
WHY do you believe that?
The rulebook does say control of the AA gun reverts to the original owner.
I was originally of that mind too, but my mind has been changed. The rulebook is quite clear about it.
“If you liberate a territory containing a captured antiaircraft gun, control reverts to the original owner.” OM, pg 25.
“Original Owner” means, to me, the nation that built (or started the game with) the AA gun.
~Josh
Yes, In terms of liberation or the original owner of the territory.
But in this case, Japan is not liberating anything, they are reclaiming Egy, which is originally British.
If the two guns are moved to Lib, THEN Japan takes it over, both guns become German as does the ter.
I’ll have to look at the exact wording though. Â I could be wrong.
I was originally of that mind too, but my mind has been changed. The rulebook is quite clear about it.Â
"If you liberate a territory containing a captured antiaircraft gun, control reverts to the original owner."Â OM, pg 25.
“Original Owner” means, to me, the nation that built (or started the game with) the AA gun.
~Josh
That’s possible OR “original owner” could refer to the Territory itself. Since you are dealing with liberation.
EDIT:
In this case Japan IS NOT liberating Egy, they are CONQUERING it. It doesn’t matter if they conquered it the previous turn as well.
This is from P18 (under aa-guns)
Usable by invading forces: If a territory is captured any antiaircraft guns there are captured. Their new owner is the player owning that territiory at the end of this turn.
P11 Capturing a territory
Any antiaircraft gun or industrial complex in the captured territory remains there but now belongs to your alliance.
Now, Liberating a Territory
P11
Antiaircraft guns or industrial complexes in that territory revert to the original controller of the territory.
Assumeing everyone still holds their capitals.
I’m simply treating the Japan-Egy thing as capturing a territory, not liberating.
I agree with DM. Note that it says “original controller of the territory” NOT “original owner of the AA or Industrial complex.”
Ooo. Interesting.
“so rested by the tum tum tree
and stood awhile in thought.”
Aw dammit. Don’t tell me I have to scrape the colour off my AA guns now :roll:
~Josh
Lime has it correct.
They easy way to remember it is
GREY PIECES BELONG TO THE OWNER OF THE TERRITORY THEY ARE IN WHEN THAT TERRITORY CHANGES HANDS.
