It seems to be a popular view that Japan is wasting its money if it buys a complex before it has maxed out the first one (i.e. is transporting 8 units/turn to the mainland). However, I am of the opinion that 2 tran 1 IC–this is assuming $1 bid to Japan–is the optimal J1 purchase for getting units to the mainland quickly. There was an old thread (sorry, I couldn’t find the link on my first search and I’m too lazy to look harder) that had some calculations to this effect, but for the short version, consider:
—If you build 3 tran on J1, you can put 8 units in Asia on your second turn. However, with 2 tran 1 IC you can get 9 units there: 6 from your three transports, and three more from your complex. With a 2 IC purchase it’s down to 8 again, one from your transport and 6 from your complexes. (I’m assuming throughout that the UK killed your transport in SZ 59 so that you only have one to start with.) So if you’re trying to get as many units to Asia on J2 as you can, 2 tran 1 IC is the way to go.
—4 tran on J1, using a bid of $2, is also a good way to start fast. However, in this case your capacity outstrips your income; it will be a couple rounds before you can actually get new units fast enough to keep your transports busy. The 2 tran 1 IC buy is better optimized at keeping your production/transport capacity matched up with the number of units you can afford to produce. In particular, a 4 tran J1 purchase enables you to put as many as 10 units into Asia on J2 if you clean out Philippines, East Indies, Okinawa, and Wake, but then you run out of island units and can only make up to 8 new ones in Japan. So you get a lot of inf on J2 but it’s more of an anomaly, where the 2 tran 1 IC buy gives you a smoother and more continuous startup.
—As far as location, I like FIC the best. Kwang is farther from Moscow than either Fic or Man, so if you’re trying to put pressure on the Russians quickly you want either Fic or Man. You can supply plenty of troops to the northern area from Japan itself, so the complex is needed more on the southern end. Plus it enables you to get to Africa, Caucasus, etc better.
—So far I’ve been assuming KGF. In KJF you should certainly be a bit more hesitant about getting factories up quickly. However, I’ve found that a FIC complex, which is always where I build on J1 if I build a factory at all, can be very helpful in KJF. Ideally when defending against an American fleet you want to defend as far out as possible, e.g. with a fleet in the Caroline or even Solomon islands. However, if you’re forced to fall back, FIC is a great fallback point. The key thing about it is that it borders all three of your valuable islands. If you get in trouble you can fall back to SZ 36 and build more ships there to join your retreating fleet. Often this will be enough to prevent the Americans from taking any of those expensive islands right away. If your only factory is in Japan you’re forced to keep your navy farther north to incorporate the new builds, and the Americans have an easier time getting to the southern islands.
J1 Two IC Build
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I would argue that you are wrong Jen…
JSP did a pretty nice job on Japan my last game, and I did Pearl Ultra-Light.
So Japan going Pearl Heavy is NOT a requirement for a KJF strat.
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There’s going to be exceptions. However, those are what my standards are for KJF vs KGF with America.
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As America it’s got to be KJF with minimal support through lendlease and Afrika
Japan would get on it’s first buy 2 trrny and tank and arty 2nd turn factory and bomber. After that depends on what happens. The whole time picking into russia and china, India can wait unless collonial garrison is there
We don’t bid so the extra cash would be nice.
Question can you bid a IC ? -
You have some strange thoughts on builds there 420. Japan will be starved for land units if they build as you state.
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I second the “them’s some strange builds,” 420. Since when can Japan afford a BOM? :? Frankly, when before say turn 6 can anyone afford a BOM? :?
The US can afford BOMs.
IN PACIFIC. :-)
IC and BOM that’s a new one. Really. Did that work? What is your opponent’s first two turns in those cases? I’m all for a Just-play-gosh-darnit.-It’s-a-game-for-Pete’s-sake attitude but that is pretty out there even for me (and I’ve been drinking this evening.) :-)
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The really scarey part is the first turn build is only 25 IPC unless I’m adding wrong.
2 Transports = 16
1 Armor = 5
1 Artillery = 416+5+4 = 25 still, right?
But if he want’s bombers what’s wrong with that? Not like anyone ever goes after Japan anyway, well, other then DM, JSP and I. :P
And for the record, I’ve done 2 Bomber purchases with USA on Round 1 and Round 2 (22 IPC left usually for other builds on Round 2) to give me 5 bombers SBRing Germany every round.
But that REALLY depends on the status of Africa!! England had BETTER have strong forces in Africa to counter Germany!
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You see Japan Can go the first 2 rounds with minimal Ground troops cause all they have to do is secure Mancuria for there IC Kick US out of first chinese space and hold till turn 3. That is when you go grunt and tank city on russia till they fall. The second bomber is to give your already respectable airforce a little more power. I use this Strategy quit a bit and it seems to work well. Germany uasually doesn’t start really pushing on USSR until turn 3 or 4 and thats when u send in japan to pull resources out of eastern russia to deal with it. Unless GB sinks the lone tranny in turn 1 you put 3 tanks and 8 or 6 grunts every turn into russia couple that with Germany’s push and russia won’t last long, garanteed. If you need too pull men off of islands first turn or two, by all means do it, by the time US or Britain come and take it it will be too late to matter. I love Japan it is my Favorite country to use, They make or break axis power. Go Japanese tankettes,T-34 is no match,LOL.
And your right about build cost first turn I meant 2 tanks
Yes Japan will be short a few men and tanks but that is irrelevant because who has an IC near them that they would have to fear a large scale invasion of any of there territories. Unl ess Collonial Garrison is in India this strategy should work well. If there is a garrison, Don’t invade russia until the garrison is gone, buy 3 tanks instead of bomber thats all, still get IC and still Manchuria is the place to go you should be able to take India by turn two if you focus most of your attention there.
I have tried many different Strategy’s with Japan, with none being more succesful then ones similar to this -
I’ve begun to think Japan really only needs China, Manchuria, FIC and Bury. I’ve also started to think that the sinking of the carrier fleet in Pearl is a rather large waste of resources. WIthout it you have 2 battleship shots, 3 extra fighters, an extra bomber, etc. That’s a lot of firepower you can use to crush the Russian wall at Bury.
Besides, America’s only going to pull those ships into the Atlantic, and last I checked, 1 Submarine is rather ineffective against 12 fighters. (Assuming Germany’s buying fighters, not silly aircraft carriers.)
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4 trn regardless of KGF or KJF (given i win the 7 bid)
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AS much fun as pearl is unles you attack the ships off of west coast and pearl, Pearl is a waste of time, 9 out of 10 times the American navy runs and hides in Atlantic like Jen has stated. When this happens,. what is left for japan 2 deal with––NOTHING, a couple of Occupied spaces that can’t be reiinforced heavily, So you do not need all the grunts right away, build your Needs first two turns, and then your wants. Japan Needs Trrny’s. Japan Needs atleast 1 IC on mainland. Japan needs 2nd Bomber. Buy it You will use it a ton. Acouple of fighter and 2 bombers following Russian-Japanese Front all the way to moscow. The front will move fast this way.
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420…
If Japan needs TRNs, then they also need TROOPS. A TRN without troops is a expensive game board decoration.
Yes, Japan DOES need 1 IC on the mainland early in the game, otherwise their 8 unit build limit cripples them. But without INF, ART, ARM for Asia, Japan is going nowhere fast.
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no it doesnt. you ahve troops on the islands that can keep those trn running. on turn 2 you build an IC.
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And while Japan is raiding those scattered islands with isolated TRN’s, the Americans SHOULD be picking those TRNs off.
Japan can obtain 6 INF easilly from islands (Wake, Oki, Phil, EI). The rest take more effort. That is less than 1 turns worth of land units to fill the TRNs (Japan should have 3 or 4 after J1). So Japan BETTER be building land units on J2, otherwise those TRNs have nothign to do on J3.
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You are right if you want to make heavy pushes early, but if all you want to do is make sure your new IC is secure. You can send your trry crews on RR. so what if they are not all used for 1 turn not that big of a deal yes it’s pretty and expensive and not doing anything, think of it as a refit for the trnny, it’s getting new deck chairs. You do not always need to be pushing forward. sometimes it’s better to wait, (not real long though) then going balls out right away.
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But 420, I don;t WANT to just secure a new IC… I want Japan forces to breach the E/N/K perimeter in force at the earliest possible opportunity to reduce Russian builds and cripple the Allies :-)
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I hear what you are saying, but if you delay your major thrust 1 turn it will do you more good then harm Like I said Withou Collonial garrison the allies have a hard time getting troops or equipment there so there is no real need for all of the troops right away. After turn two, Japan builds nothing but men and tanks with a occasional fighter or ship. If you play with bids and are conerned for the lack of troops, give your whole bid to JPN, Germany’s got enough. the only perimiter you need to go for is the liberatin of china, and russia
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I just don;t see a BOM as being worth losing 6 or 8 land units in the most forward position.
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@ncscswitch:
And while Japan is raiding those scattered islands with isolated TRN’s, the Americans SHOULD be picking those TRNs off.
Japan can obtain 6 INF easilly from islands (Wake, Oki, Phil, EI). The rest take more effort. That is less than 1 turns worth of land units to fill the TRNs (Japan should have 3 or 4 after J1). So Japan BETTER be building land units on J2, otherwise those TRNs have nothign to do on J3.
you seriously dont know what you are talking about. Jav, Phi, Wak, Bor, Oki, Car and Ngu can be reached without intervension from the americans. There is 10 inf in the pacific and you can get 9 of those without problems. If the american player sails out of Z55 on turn 3 or 4 (on a KJF) then you use some of thsoe handy trn as cannon fodder. You cant go wrong.
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Which still interupts your flow to Asia.
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I take russia by turn 6-7. Can you take it earlier?
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