Does Germany ever build ICs?

@gnasape:

TDJ that’s classic.  Mr. T. says “Tanks are strong!”  Is that from the Caspian Sub paper?

Blitz2: It never hurts to try but I would have to agree with both Dan and TDJ, buy ground forces.

It might work in AA 1942 but not really in revised?

It should be even worst in AA42: 1 less hit and 3 less dice points. Germany could ignore it, of course, and even mimic building tons of navy. Since you, as soviet, gave them time in east, Germany could buy a uber fleet to create havoc in allied fleets. A powerful german combo would be: take gib, kill z2 or z1, send 2 subs to English channel, buy, say, ac, bb, 2 inf, tons of subs or any other wicked combo (join fleets round 2 or 3, ouch!). UK will struggle to keep the pace, and USA cannot join the fight and also buy enough land guys to protect their rear/contest Africa (silly Bering strait icecap  :-P ) OR germans could still do the moves and simply make a tank rush while Japan does the same

In Revised, it could be interesting trying, but without a bid. I doubt it can work by the way, it’s just slightly better

A note: stick to Revised, it’s better than AA42 (KFJ is viable and also Polar Express)

Yes, I have tried. It doesn’t work. With only 1 IPC, you can’t produce enough units to get your money’s worth out of it.

@Bean:

It’s ok Jen, and it turned out to help you in your game ^^

Yea, well he was a royal prick in the game and got the mod to force that the worst outcome of the two results be applied, even though the first outcome was obviously first.

I had to go back to a previous roll to check and make sure my artillery was applied right, they were not.  So he lost 1 hit, but because my worst of two was like -12 hits, he still came out like a bandit.

Anyway, thanks, because Germany now has +42 IPC for next round and I AM sticking him with it.  18 rounds of illegal rocket fire. (I just took every rocket on S. Europe, figured it was the most fair.  Germany’s a higher value target then S. Europe, so it would probably be the target shot at anyway.  Besides, Germany was the first rocket rolled in every round, S. Europe was the second, Caucasus the third.)

Germany lost 400 IPC in armies (killing only 215 because of that dice fiasco) but she also has 120 to spend and Japan’s going to finish off the enemy anyway!

That is kind of a hybrid view of OOB and LHTR Jen, but it makes sense… FIGs loaded prior to launching of AC (or immediately after)

@Jennifer:

We’re talking Sea Lion in Round 2 now?

England has 1 Bomber, 5 Fighters, 2 Infantry, 2 Armor, 1 Artillery and 1 Fighter, 1 Bomber, 2 Infantry, 1 Armor and 1 Artillery from America vs what, 6 infantry, 6 tanks, 6 fighters, and a bomber you said? (I know you did, I copy pasted it.) . . .

So the question is, do you want to loose your entire Airforce and not take the land, or do you want to allow England to hit you with 5 fighters and a bomber next round?

Er, who are you talking to?  I wrote that G2 SeaLion WON’T work.  “No, a G1 buy of 5 transports does not guarantee taking of London.”  Even later, I mentioned “That’s an offensive punch of 46 against an AA gun and a defensive punch of 54.”, I hope you don’t think I would think those were good odds!

The only SeaLion I advocate is a 1-2 tech dice for Long Range Aircraft with OOB (and possibly FAQs), to allow Germany the 16-30% chance to attack on G1 with 1 infantry, 1 tank, 6 fighters, and bomber, against London’s existing forces, as well as leaving Germany the IPCs to buy transports to secure London on G2 or G3; and even then I only advocate it if Russia did not fly its fighters in, and if OOB/FAQ rules are being used (because, of course, LHTR delays tech from going into effect, so you couldn’t get all those fighters to hit London).

The response I’m looking for is how to counter that threat other than flying Russian fighters to London, and ncsswitch has responded with a proposal of a Russian fighter attack on the Baltic, and a Russian attack on the Ukraine, combined with a sub move to block the German attack.  I think that is too risky because it commits three Russian tanks and Russia must win the Ukraine battle to kill that German fighter, and because both Russian fighters will probably die attacking the Baltic, in which case Germany could opt not to go G1 Sea Lion at all, but build mass ground units (POSSIBLY eight tanks, although I normally think of that as insanely reckless for Germany), and try to smash Russia instead.  But that’s not to say that I think ncsswitch’s proposal is bad, because preventing a G1 Sea Lion with 2 tech dice is pretty difficult anyways; if Russian fighters just fly to London (which was what I proposed), Germany is quite strong with the Belorussian and Ukraine forces intact.  Maybe if USSR did a hit and run on Ukraine, and hit West Russia . . .

“As for the detriment to Russia in that scenario… (Russia attacks the Baltic fleet with 2 fighters)
With the Baltic Fleet toast, UK starts landing in Karelia/EE/Germany via the baltic in UK2 with 6 divisions plus air and BB shot.  That immediate reingforcement of Russia is a heck of a boos,t and mor ethan counters the lost FIGs.”

First, if Russia was attacking the Baltic fleet - and all combat moves are made “simultaneously”, so I would also see the commitment in the Ukraine, and see that Russia was going to try to prevent G1 Sealion - I would probably kill the transport before the destroyer, because I just wouldn’t need the transport; I’d be planning a quick attack against Moscow at that point.  Second, in such a case, I do not see it as clear that Russia will kill the Baltic fleet, even if both Russian fighters die.  Third, even if the Baltic fleet was cleared, and UK built AC, transport, and 2 infantry, that fleet could not threaten E. Europe or Germany that early - there are just too many ground units being built in Germany and being pushed through E. Europe.  (If UK didn’t build an AC on UK1, and tried moving units into Karelia or E. Europe on UK2, Germany just uses W. Europe fighters and the bomber at Libya to clear, which is why I assume UK WILL build an AC, and not two transports, three infantry, and a tank.)  Fourth, if UK does stay in the Baltic, the US push on Africa and the Mediterranean will be postponed, and every turn that Africa is delayed is costly to the Allies.  Fifth - do you normally attack the Baltic fleet with Russian fighters on Russ1; if you do, how does that go?

–

I actually think the UK unification is the second best scenario for Germany, because it allows 6 transports, 2 subs, destroyer, 4-5 fighters, and bomber to attack a combined fleet of 2 transports, sub, aircraft carrier, 2 fighters, and battleship.  In such a case, I wouldn’t try invading London at all.  Let me clear, though, and state that I am firmly against 5 G1 transports; you can’t count on UK to unite that fleet, and even if it does, USSR’s push is just too strong.

@AgentOrange:

Which is why I brought up this topic:  Would it be a good or a bad idea to allow Germany a first-round withdrawal?  :?

Ive done it before…and sometimes it works very well.  My method of retreating and regrouping is to simpy advance all my inf forward, cause I feel that I shoud at least make the russians pay dearly for advancing.  I retreat my art and arm…making large arm stacks in Eastern Europe and making a large art stack in the Balkans.

muhahahaha

this tactic works well against the group i play with… they go after germany with a vengance… they retreat everything from all the corners of world for the most part and pull to the atlantic just to put a wrench in the works for germany… they buy nothing without germany in mind… its 100 % devotion… it took 5 turns last game before i felt i could even make a real run at russia because i had to hold strong while japan got going…

Edit: holding strong meant staying at 40 or above… i fell to 37 one turn but rebounded back after a little regrouping…

Hmmm, well I guess it is not more effective, you’re right. I just went and looked at the numbers and by the end of round 6 the transport method would only yield you 12 units, while the factory method would yield you (assuming you use original 2 transports) 4 on round 2, 3 on round 3, 4, 5, 6. The method I would be advocating would require two extra transports to shuffle down to brazil, which obviously costs substantially more than the factory and only allows you to get 1 more unit there a turn.

I think I just have an aversion to having a factory around not doing anything later in the game, but in your case it would definitely be worth it. In every other case I would definitely suggest against a brazilian IC, but for the smallest amount of IPCs I guess the factory in brazil would have to be the way to go, assuming you just want to use the original EUS transports.