Ideas on a counter?

@Cornwallis Gibastion. Make a fortress at Gibraltar with the fleet and (typically) an airbase.
Prevents Sealion because you can get back to UK as a block and all those transports can’t do anything.
Prevents Italian NO.
Protects Egypt as the Italians can’t go without the UK Med fleet stomping them.

It will eventually link with the US and ferry troops across.

@Cornwallis You do have to reinforce Algeria. Typically you take the Med transport and the transport near Ireland/UK to bring 4 units + 2-3 ftrs, put the Med DD to block bombards and Italy should have very few options.

@Cornwallis Do a search for Gibastion on this site and you’ll find several methods to try.

@Cornwallis

R1: buy 3 SB’s (and buy one SB every turn after)
UK1: buy 2 SB’s. bomb W German Air Base with original bomber first turn.
.
When both Russia and UK at war together, level both German Major IC’s every single turn if need be.

This will grind Germany to a halt. They will have to pay $20-$40 every turn

If Germany immediately goes for Sea Lion due to UK not putting land units turn one, send 3 bombers and 4 ftrs to sink their navy, including all the trns. You can position MED AC at Gibraltar to catch two ftrs, but if that is not an option then buy 2 AC’s turn two so you can send four ftrs. If you don’t sink the trns, you will have wiped out all of the warships and/or some planes and now will have two AC’s (possibly more boats depending on what happened) with a UK ftr, tac, and French ftr blocking the landing.

Germany will most likely not have any boats left, maybe one. They are going to have to send all of their planes to clear the new fleet in 110 so Sea Lion is either dead in the water or a phryic victory.

Make sure to keep Scotland protected - no freebees. And if London does fall, it will be with very limited ground units so UK should be able to take it right back with units from Scotland.

@surfer said in Ideas on a counter?:

@Cornwallis Gibastion. Make a fortress at Gibraltar with the fleet and (typically) an airbase.
Prevents Sealion because you can get back to UK as a block and all those transports can’t do anything.
Prevents Italian NO.
Protects Egypt as the Italians can’t go without the UK Med fleet stomping them.

It will eventually link with the US and ferry troops across.

I just developed a counter strategy to Gibastion for the Axis.

Algerian Snake barely works and cripples Italy for the game and Germany loses bombers finishing up the maneuver.

Operation Felix flips Gibastion on its head and guarantees a super easy Sea Lion as well as a fortress in both Spain and Gibraltar to block USA from coming right in.
You can spare trns to take Eire and Scotland to deny landing spots for American bombers. And London becomes a fortress too with 11 trns ready to shuck inf to London when America comes calling.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/42427/operation-felix

I played Italy and to a lesser extent Germany so badly trying out this strat but it still worked as planned. I learned from all of my mistakes so next time doing this strat should be much much better I believe.

I decided to have America go right to liberate London but because of the large amount of units Germany had in London had to spend a few turns building up fleet and enough trns to credibly take London back. That was turn 8. In hindsight, America should have abandoned Europe and gone right for the Pacific. (although prior game, America abandoned Europe to go for Pacific and it ended very badly for the allies so I decided to go London this game… also to a disaster lol)

@dazedwit

Nice

Every version of G 40 I’ve played seems kill Nippon first and kill SSR first works the best. A matter of how to do it tactically, as your discussion acknowledges, is the problem and solutuion.

Not to bug I hope but I think I pitched this to you before ?

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/36945/axis-allies-global-1940-house-rules-expansion

anyway, many more options here and once you get triplea sorted, OOB or a mod, you’ll be able to get way more games/testing in.

Rock On

@Cornwallis Usually yes, I buy an airbase. But like everything the Allies do, it depends upon the G1 move and what the bid units are.

Generally, the German attack on the UK fleet is a near zero TUV battle and loses many Luftwaffe planes early in the game when it is hard for Germany to recover.

Ideally, I setup for a defense of Algeria so that any German attack is impossible. That often means that I don’t need the airbase since no planes land there.

Operation Felix is something I’ve never seen/tried. Against a game that has been balanced by a reasonable bid, I would believe that the disregard of the UK fleet is a mistake by the Germans, even if it is temporarily trapped in Med. It would seem that the loss of Norway NO, conversion of all neutrals to pro-allied, and the rise of the Russians would make that gambit fail in the long run. The Allies can lose UK early and still recover.

@surfer

I played out entire game to see if Felix would be the Axis downfall. As badly as I played Italy (so bad) and Germany doing this strategy it still worked.

Felix kept America out of Europe until US took Norway turn 7 in prep for London liberation which may not have happened because Germany had like 17 inf in London

The Iberian peninsula was an absolute fortress so US couldn’t come usual way.

Russia became a monster during this game which had more to do with Sea Lion than Felix. I learned for future to attack Russia same turn as London to get some breathing space.

Because of the Russian bear Japan was going to have to win the game and they did taking Sydney and then Hawai was going to be next. Allies conceded US8 before London could be liberated

@surfer

And trapped UK fleet was knocked down to damaged battleship and damaged AC UK2 after wiping out entire Italian fleet.

German subs finished them off

@Cornwallis
At Triple A having the Krauts take and hold Gib is all the rage…you can thank me and Preatorian.

The counters

1. The Russians become unconquerable and should buy 6 arty and 2 armor turn 1…setting up powerful counterattacks.
2. Brits buy a Destroyer and use it to block the Germs from heading South to Gib. Ftrs too, if done right you can make Gib a Bastion quickly.
   Learn how to block. I did ths to Preatorian and demoralized him as he spent huge efforts attempting to take Gib…turn 4 came, still he did not have Gib. Ivan was akso ready to kick his teeth in on the Ost Front…he was done.
3. USA best be ready to support the Brits at Gib on turn 4. Not saying ignore the Pacific, just you better be ready to move in force. Subs are a good buy.

If Germany is buying fleet they are weak on East Front. Don’t just buy 11 inf every turn, immediately buy offensive pieces with Russia. Only a handful of people play Russia well…Yerf is the best. I am next.

Germany buying a crap load of fleet is all the rage. People don’t adjust their buys to it and get slaughtered as a result. ADAPT people, don’t be a robot buying the same stuff no matter what.

@dazedwit said in Ideas on a counter?:

@surfer

And trapped UK fleet was knocked down to damaged battleship and damaged AC UK2 after wiping out entire Italian fleet.

German subs finished them off

I’m usually fine with losing the UK fleet early in the game. Many games have G1 turns take both UK fleets out and the Med fleet is in a precarious position. But to eliminate it (assuming appropriate UK1 moves) requires a chunk of the Luftwaffe to die.

I don’t see how the German subs finished off the fleet. Sounds like they collected at SZ91 or 110. If so, the Brits have 3 DDs in the Atlantic. For Gibastion, the DD in 109 typically goes into the Med. But the other 2 are unaccounted for. Often G1 takes 1-2 subs to kill SZ106, but you said you didn’t attack any UK fleet so the SZ111 fleet is still around. If it moves to SZ109 UK1, then UK2 can kill several of them. You can G2 attack that group (probably your best option), but if you don’t send any subs, that can be expensive for the luftwaffe, especially considering your are losing the money war due to neutral crush + loss of NO and tougher Russia.

Can you kill the fleet and Sealion? Yes. is it a game winning solution, I don’t think so. You put a large fraction of your units in immediate harms way for the US who can buy and attack in 1 turn. That is usually a recipe for disaster.

To go forward, I think we need to agree upon some parameters of the game to make any real decisions about this gambit:
Is this OOB? (which I think it is)
Is there a reasonable bid 45-55 IPCs for the Allies?

Assuming it is (I’ll go with minimum 45), my typical bid units would be
UK sub in SZ98
UK sub in SZ106
ftr in Scotland
inf Yunnan
ftr Moscow
ftr Volgograd
Last 3 allow Yunnan stack to ensure the Japanese are not having fun either.

Buy for the UK1 buy, I would chose an airbase + ftr + inf (continuing with the gambit)

If I had my entire UK fleet (ie. no attack on SZ110), I would move the fleet to SZ92, and may or may not block the Italian fleet in SZ94 with DD.
But doesn’t matter because I1, the Italians are going to SZ93 to invade and can’t waste any time on the UK fleet.

UK2 kills the Italian fleet and now I don’t see what the plan is. Sure, you can Sealion. But the Med fleet is strong, and only aircraft can kill it. The US will be coming and you haven’t started in Russia. You gave me 26 inf from Neutrals (Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Portugal, Angola, Mozambique, Afghanistan, and all of Mongolia = 78IPCs) that also adds 7 IPCs/turn–although it will take 2 turns to acquire all of these assets, and you lose a NO for 5 IPCs/turn.
Without the Italians, Egypt is not falling any time soon even with no money coming.
Spain is a target for the US that will require extensive W Europe buys to counter further reducing the forces in the East.

@surfer
45 Bid? Who are you playing? They must be Axis Gods.

@Galendae That is a typical bid in the league on this forum

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/41788/bids/2?_=1776627041833

@surfer
Sweet Baby Jesus, are these online games?

@surfer 2 German subs were hanging out in SZ 90 and 88. As soon as UK attacked Italian fleet in 93 the German subs slid into 92. UK lost most of their boats so no destroyers left. Germany had a NB at Gib now so nowhere for the UK fleet to hide. I think I might have also bought sub(s) in Southern france same turn.

Yugo was attacked already but not yet taken by Axis so UK fleet went there with whatever they could carry and the ftr to cause havoc in the Balkans which they were able to do for another two turns if I remember correctly. UK left a trns and boat behind so they went and took Sicily since they could only move two spots. And UK had one extra trns with nothing to do so He just moved two spots to Cairo and luckily was spared next turn so made it to Suez.

G4, 5 trns and fully loaded AC moved to 92. G5 a bunch of tanks, mechs and inf left Spain/Gib to take Cairo and give Italy some breathing room. Tanks and mechs then liberated Albania from Russia with 3 inf left behind to collect NO and support Italy.

4 trns invaded Sweden to prevent Russia from getting a bunch of free inf as they had Finland and to restore the German NO.

@Galendae said in Ideas on a counter?:

@surfer
Sweet Baby Jesus, are these online games?

Yes, played daily. Please come join the league. It’s open to anyone who has a desire to play. OBTW, you’ll find much better competition than playing the game against yourself.
Just like chess, you can find your thought process locked into one view and not realize it until your opponent makes the “obvious” but not seen by you move.

@dazedwit As stated above, I’m sure you could crush anything with the Axis in an OOB game without a bid. Suggest you try adding bid units to the game to balance the sides so it is a more fair fight. Better challenge someone online. I would but I’m involved with multiple games right now and can’t really take on another.