Balanced?

@jim010 said in Balanced?:

I will add that we have had the game since July. We have played about 20ish games, but have only played Race to Stalingrad. Early games were more about learning the rules and getting a feel for the best tasctics. Of those 20 games, The Soviets have won the majority of the games, and it typically is not even close, with the Germans barely getting onto the city map. I am not saying the Germans have not won in our games, but those wins are few.

I would be interested in reading about what strategies other players are using as the Germans? My current read is that that it is unbalanced in favour of the Soviets.

The Germans are the attackers and thus are more difficult to play. Over time, as you learn the better German strategies, it should end up being balanced.

I would say push hard and make as many good attacks as you can early on the Regional Map while the Germans have a big advantage in numbers. It should not be difficult to push the Russians to the brink on the Stalingrad map before they launch Uranus.

Make sure you get German infantry on to the Stalingrad map for the force multiplier.

@AndrewAAGamer said in Balanced?:

@jim010 said in Balanced?:

I will add that we have had the game since July. We have played about 20ish games, but have only played Race to Stalingrad. Early games were more about learning the rules and getting a feel for the best tasctics. Of those 20 games, The Soviets have won the majority of the games, and it typically is not even close, with the Germans barely getting onto the city map. I am not saying the Germans have not won in our games, but those wins are few.

I would be interested in reading about what strategies other players are using as the Germans? My current read is that that it is unbalanced in favour of the Soviets.

The Germans are the attackers and thus are more difficult to play. Over time, as you learn the better German strategies, it should end up being balanced.

I would say push hard and make as many good attacks as you can early on the Regional Map while the Germans have a big advantage in numbers. It should not be difficult to push the Russians to the brink on the Stalingrad map before they launch Uranus.

Make sure you get German infantry on to the Stalingrad map for the force multiplier.

I dunno, if he’s truly played 20 games I think he’s allowed a strong opinion on balance… I have nowhere near the same playtime but my early opinion is that it feels very imbalanced in favor of the Soviets.

@Hansolo88 Sorry you think I am lying about how much I have played, but I have reported on my experience. And yes, I really have played 20ish games. I have had this game since July 4th, so I have had plenty of time with it. I have played a variety of players, but I have 1 player that I have played most of my games with. Most wins are with the Soviets, as I reported. I am asking what strategies others are using to see if we can do things differently to pull a German win more oftren.

@jim010 said in Balanced?:

@Hansolo88 Sorry you think I am lying about how much I have played, but I have reported on my experience. And yes, I really have played 20ish games. I have had this game since July 4th, so I have had plenty of time with it. I have played a variety of players, but I have 1 player that I have played most of my games with. Most wins are with the Soviets, as I reported. I am asking what strategies others are using to see if we can do things differently to pull a German win more oftren.

Oh my apologies, I assumed you were genuine and I was agreeing with you on the balance concerns. It feels like a combination of factors mitigate the German advantages and tilt the game heavily in favor of the Soviets, though in any Axis and Allies game the dice rolls will sometimes swing one way or another.

@AndrewAAGamer So far, our German tactics are to not hit every last Soviet unit on the region board, but at least push them to the north of the Don. When losing units, we are now choosing to lose artillery, Stugs, and even tanks in order to keep the force multipilers to enter the city map with. If we can preserve the force multipliers AND get them onto the city map AND get them in early AND approach from the north and center/south, they have had a decent chance of winning. But it is hard to meet all those conditions. I would add that we are not using the optional rules, as it seems to benefit the Soviets anyways.

I have only played 2 games, the first of which was an absolute slaughter by the soviets. This was to be expected though, as with most AAA games the axis generally lose until the proper strategies are “figured out”. Plus learning game mechanics is a huge part as this game is more unique.

The second game was much much closer, and the germans did win, but there was a relatively large misplay by the soviets (not realizing how operation Winter Storm works) and we had bad weather the first 4 rounds after operation Uranus was launched, so none of those new soviet planes could attack.

Time will certainly tell, but I definitely think the Germans are harder to play and have to blitzkrieg harder than you’ve ever blitzkrieg’d before.

This is just an idea, but should the Germans instead of crushing the soviets really hard early on just focus on a really strong supply line with troops into Stalingrad? Basically only aiming for the victory condition’s.

@FranceNeedsMorePower I don’t think so for a few reasons.

1. The axis generally have no issues with supply before Operation Uranus.
2. The Soviets get to build units immediately whereas the axis do not, so the more RPs the soviets get the more the axis have to deal with, eventually the axis forces will get whittled down to nothing.
3. The axis will need Operation Winter Storm to be effective to win. That comes from all the RP’s you get to bank during the game. If OWS doesn’t get going, is too small, too slow etc the game will probably end in a Soviet Victory.

@Daaras Yeah, makes sense. They need to collect as much income as possible.

I find that in our games the Germans must get onto the City Map quickly (including from the north) AND try to maintain few casualties for any shot at winning. Pitomnik and Rynok are a must for entry points so far.

@jim010 said in Balanced?:

@AndrewAAGamer So far, our German tactics are to not hit every last Soviet unit on the region board, but at least push them to the north of the Don.

Pushing them north of the Don is a minimum. I assume you are eliminating them from the rest of the map EXCEPT possibly any Russian reinforcement areas. (For the reason you don’t want to allow them to build multiple units on the Regional map)

I would suggest crossing the Don in the north and getting into the Uranus entry zones, as well as on the western (EDIT: eastern) side too. By having a single unit in each of those zones it means the Russians are not able to move on the first turn of Uranus as they are locked in combat. This slows their counterattack greatly.

When losing units, we are now choosing to lose artillery, Stugs, and even tanks in order to keep the force multipilers to enter the city map with. If we can preserve the force multipliers AND get them onto the city map AND get them in early AND approach from the north and center/south, they have had a decent chance of winning. But it is hard to meet all those conditions. I would add that we are not using the optional rules, as it seems to benefit the Soviets anyways.

Good, you are learning. Artillery and Stugs should definitely be taken before German infantry due to a) the force multiplier on the Stalingrad map and b) with few tanks and fewer planes those units are not as useful as multiplied infantry. Tanks I would still keep.

We found in our testing, with equally experienced players and fair dice, it was nearly impossible for the Germans to gain a Total Victory and if they extended themselves too much they just opened the door for the Russians to get their own Total victory.

My suggestion for the Germans is to push hard, very hard, to kill as many Russian units as possible while the Germans have the numerical advantage and get onto the Stalingrad map as quickly as possible as to enable a collection of good RPs for Winter Storm. Goal should be 55+.

Then back off so Uranus does not wipe you out and prepare a solid defense as to hold Pitomnik for at least a Minor victory and the potential of a Major one.

If you would post your standard opening German attack I could give you advice regarding it.

@AndrewAAGamer This makes me happy, as this was the theory I came up with after my two games. Artillery are probably the first unit to be taken under almost every circumstance. Especially as they don’t buff infantry in this version.

I am of the belief that the Germans must blitzkrieg as hard as they possibly can. Getting into the city is way more important than killing stragglers on the region board.

Hold pitomnik, and try to use Winter Storm to reopen the supply from the south. It’s doable, but not easy.

I also found that bombing the ferries was quite helpful early as you generally get free kills with no risk of them attacking back. Especially once/if the Soviets supply lines are only from across the Volga

@AndrewAAGamer I don’t have the game in front of me, but here is what our tactics have developed into so far:

Push Soviets out of the Don basin, air drop supply on the unsupplied Gerrmans in the south, and attack across the river with the purpose of taking Rynok and pitomnik on the following turns. Use air power in concentration to decisivly defeat the enemy in 1 round if possible in the spaces next to Rynok and Pitomnik. Following turns (if units available) occupy the north and south with a man screen, ideally the man screen is 2 in depth. Goal is to enter Stalingrad from Rynok and get those factories, while also entering through Pitomnik and spreading out from there to get cash. We save our mech and infantry as much as possible. We drop German supply on Pitomnik to keep Germans in supply in the city if there is a cut off. Plans are not being used in Stalingrad itself that much due to Soviets accumulating artillery through the factory and buying extra.

I suppose we are playing to win the game by sudden death, but that has never happened on the German side.

Okay, overall sounds good at a high level.

I am surprised to hear you are airdropping supplies on Pitomnik. Is this when there is bad weather? Otherwise, the planes should be attacking at every opportunity there is as that is a huge advantage for the Axis early on.

Definitely agree that the entry points are Pitomnik and Rynok.

• Pitomnik should fall on G2.

• Rynok should fall no later than G3 and hopefully G2. It depends if the Russians contest it from Ilovenska.

The G1 attack I came up with in our testing was generally agreed to be very powerful. Do you attack?

• Kremenskaya
• Kotluben
• Vertyachii
• Kalach
• Buzinovka
• Gromoslavka
• Abganerovo Station
• Tinguta

This should, on average, result in 16 hits for the Germans (11 infantry, 1 mechanized infantry and 4 tanks) with the Russians getting 10 hits (9 infantry and 1 mechanized infantry).

Of course, on R1 the Russians don’t fare much better as they have fewer units now to counterattack.

No sure what you mean about a 2 depth man screen. Is this mid-game when you are expecting Uranus or early on? I only say this as early on you need to get everyone into Stalingrad you can ASAP. 1) To collect as many RP’s as possible while reducing Russian income and 2) to put tremendous pressure on Russia so they can’t wait to initiate Uranus until to Turn 7. If the Russians can wait to Turn 7 life is going to be a lot tougher for the Axis.

BTW, usually, it is those units locked in combat that then become your screening against Uranus because they could not get into the City early on anyway.

Glad to hear you are enjoying the game!

@jim010 It sounds like your attack is going too wide (i.e. trying to enter the city from every angle simultaneously, leaving large numbers of troops on the flanks where the Uranus guys will appear) and are getting punished for it, but that’s impossible to see without a proper game report with screenshots.
From your earlier posts, I would recommend tweaking your OOL with Germany to at least keep Tanks alive. having blitz move available to you when inside the city will make progressing there go easier.

@Daaras What!? Really!? I never knew that!

@AndrewAAGamer

We attac: Kremenskaya, Koutluban, Vertyachi, Kalach, and Buzinovka on turn 1

@jim010 said in Balanced?:

@AndrewAAGamer

We attac: Kremenskaya, Koutluban, Vertyachi, Kalach, and Buzinovka on turn 1

Thanks, that sounds pretty good.

You are missing Gromoslavka; and I assume the 3 Russian infantry then slide into Abganerovo Station to make that battle go longer. While not a total disaster, that could be an issue as then the Tinguta battle is fighting without supplies which is certainly not ideal.

I would rethink hitting Gromoslavka with 4 infantry and an artillery, all minor axis. While that is an even battle on G1, 6 vs 6, on the Russian counterattack it is most likely 2 vs 8 so the Russians die faster and can’t assist in other battles. It is key to clear the regional board asap so to get into the City board fast.

@AndrewAAGamer Sorry, I missed that. Yes, we attack Gromoslavka as well. We do try to clear Tinguta as soon as possible to get those units moving. The soviet player often does a good job of gumming up the German movements.

@DoManMacgee Ideally entering form all 3 would be nice, but the focus is on Pitomnik and Rynok