L25 PTV Adam514 (Axis+14) vs axis-dominion (Allies)

sea lion vs a full london buy really shouldn’t be as feasible as it was for peirce. i urge you to consider this feedback. i would think coming from me given my ranking you’d consider it more carefully. doubt i’ll be picking up more games until i feel this point is addressed. not saying make it impossible to sea lion, of course, but as it stands it’s just too easy and i’m willing to bet it’s going to be the more common strategy for axis, which is the opposite of one of the stated goals of being more historical.

air base scrambling is pretty cool and it’s grown on me, but i will say it really neutralizes the one big advantage allies have in a sea lion game, namely, that russia can sustain a high income by skirmishes on european soil. first thing peirce did was plant an AB in slovakia lol. so dumb… i think japan doing that in asia (as i did vs china) was also very hampering, but not as bad i think as stunting the russians in a sea lion game.

@Adam514 said in L25 PTV Adam514 (Axis+14) vs axis-dominion (Allies):

PTV has existed for 5 years, and most games I’ve seen haven’t been Sealion.

i think that’s going to change, and has already started happening. like i said, i’m now about to be in 4 sea lion games out of my last 4 allies games. 4 for 4 lol.

i think it was just a matter of the community realizing that sea lion is much easier and feasible to pull off, so there’ll be a large uptick in occurrences.

TripleA Turn Summary: Chinese round 26

TripleA Turn Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory

Game History

Round: 26

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 armour, 1 carrier, 2 destroyers, 2 fighters, 13 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Americans
        3 infantry moved from Southern Italy to Northern Italy
        1 infantry moved from Albania to Yugoslavia
        1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Yugoslavia
        1 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Romania
        3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Southern Caucasus to Romania
        3 bombers moved from Malta to Yugoslavia
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Trans-Jordan to Yugoslavia
        3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 95 Sea Zone to Northern Italy

    Combat - Americans
        Battle in Northern Italy
            Americans attack with 3 fighters, 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
            Germans defend with 1 airfield, 1 factory_minor and 2 infantry
                Americans roll dice for 3 fighters, 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Northern Italy, round 2 : 5/9 hits, 4.00 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Northern Italy, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Northern Italy
            Americans win, taking Northern Italy from Germans with 3 fighters, 3 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6
            Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
        Battle in Yugoslavia
            Americans attack with 3 bombers, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Germans defend with 2 infantry
                Americans roll dice for 3 bombers, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Yugoslavia, round 2 : 4/7 hits, 3.00 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 2 infantry in Yugoslavia, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Yugoslavia
                2 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Yugoslavia
            Americans win, taking Yugoslavia from Germans with 3 bombers, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Americans: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 2 infantry
        Battle in Romania
            Americans attack with 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Americans roll dice for 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers in Romania, round 2 : 4/7 hits, 3.67 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Romania, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Romania
            Americans win, taking Romania from Germans with 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 100 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries, 3 infantry and 3 transports moved from 100 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
        3 artilleries and 3 infantry moved from 95 Sea Zone to Southern France
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Quebec to 109 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 109 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 93 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
        3 carriers, 1 destroyer, 4 fighters and 2 submarines moved from 109 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        3 carriers and 3 fighters moved from 104 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        3 fighters moved from 93 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Western United States to 11 Sea Zone
        1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 11 Sea Zone to 28 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 28 Sea Zone to Hawaiian Islands
        1 mech_infantry moved from Central United States to Western United States
        4 tactical_bombers moved from Trans-Jordan to 93 Sea Zone
        3 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Northern Italy to Southern France
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Trans-Jordan to 95 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Greece to Bulgaria
        1 infantry moved from Greece to Albania
        1 fighter moved from Yugoslavia to Albania
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Yugoslavia to Bulgaria
        3 tactical_bombers moved from Romania to Greece
        3 fighters moved from Romania to Greece
        3 bombers moved from Yugoslavia to Southern France
        1 armour moved from Northwest Persia to Southern Persia
        3 infantry moved from Iraq to Southern Persia
        5 submarines moved from 82 Sea Zone to 83 Sea Zone
        5 carriers, 2 destroyers and 2 transports moved from 78 Sea Zone to 83 Sea Zone
        4 transports moved from 83 Sea Zone to 100 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Trans-Jordan to 93 Sea Zone
        1 tactical_bomber moved from 95 Sea Zone to Southern France
        3 fighters moved from Egypt to 95 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Trans-Jordan to Southern France
        1 fighter moved from Trans-Jordan to Southern France
        1 transport moved from 95 Sea Zone to 97 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Southern Italy to 97 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 97 Sea Zone to 95 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from 95 Sea Zone to Southern France

    Place Units - Americans
        1 carrier, 2 destroyers and 1 transport placed in 11 Sea Zone
        3 infantry placed in Iraq
        1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry placed in Egypt
        3 infantry placed in Greece
        3 infantry placed in Southern Italy
        3 infantry placed in Southern France
        2 fighters placed in Eastern United States
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Americans from 94 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Americans to 93 Sea Zone: 1 submarine
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 78 PUs; end with 78 PUs
        Trigger Americans 10 Presence In Axis Capital: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 83 PUs
        Trigger Americans 7 North Africa Beach Head: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 88 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 98 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 103 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 108 PUs

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Loses Burma Road: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Closed
        Chinese buy 3 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese
        1 fighter moved from Kansu to Chahar
        2 infantry moved from Shansi to Chahar

    Combat - Chinese
        Battle in Chahar
            Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Chahar
            Chinese win, taking Chahar from Japanese with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Chinese
        20 artilleries and 10 infantry moved from Shansi to Honan
        1 fighter moved from Chahar to Honan
        2 infantry moved from Kansu to Inner Mongolia

    Place Units - Chinese
        3 infantry placed in Honan

    Turn Complete - Chinese
        Chinese collect 9 PUs; end with 10 PUs

    Combat Move - British

    Non Combat Move - British
        1 carrier moved from 83 Sea Zone to 100 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser moved from 83 Sea Zone to 100 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser moved from 78 Sea Zone to 100 Sea Zone
        1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 100 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Southeast Mexico to 91 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 91 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 93 Sea Zone to Gibraltar

    Turn Complete - UK_Pacific

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : 0.17
Americans regular : 2.33
Japanese regular : -0.33
Germans regular : -0.67

Savegame

considering a change.

we’ll just leave it

TripleA Turn Summary: French round 26

TripleA Turn Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory

Game History

Round: 26

    Purchase Units - ANZAC
        ANZAC buy 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 2 PUs; 

    Combat Move - ANZAC

    Non Combat Move - ANZAC
        2 infantry moved from New South Wales to Queensland
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from New South Wales to Queensland
        1 submarine moved from 82 Sea Zone to 83 Sea Zone

    Place Units - ANZAC
        2 infantry placed in New South Wales

    Turn Complete - ANZAC
        ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 12 PUs

    Combat Move - French

    Non Combat Move - French
        1 cruiser moved from 100 Sea Zone to 94 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - French

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

no scrambles

TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 27

TripleA Turn Summary for game: WW2 Path to Victory

Game History

Round: 27

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians buy 1 artillery and 10 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians
        1 infantry moved from Southern Persia to Baluchistan
              Russians take Baluchistan from Germans
        2 infantry moved from Smolensk to Southern Belarus
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Southern Belarus
        4 artilleries and 71 infantry moved from Smolensk to Northern Belarus

    Combat - Russians
        Battle in Northern Belarus
            Russians attack with 4 artilleries and 71 infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 4 artilleries and 71 infantry in Northern Belarus, round 2 : 16/75 hits, 13.83 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Northern Belarus, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Northern Belarus
            Russians win, taking Northern Belarus from Germans with 4 artilleries and 71 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Southern Belarus
            Russians attack with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Southern Belarus, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Southern Belarus, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Southern Belarus
            Russians win, taking Southern Belarus from Germans with 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        2 artilleries and 10 infantry moved from Russia to Smolensk
        1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Smolensk
        3 infantry moved from Kursk to Bryansk
        11 armour, 19 artilleries, 62 infantry and 8 mech_infantrys moved from Southern Persia to Baluchistan
        1 armour moved from Northeast Persia to Baluchistan
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Belarus to Russia
        2 infantry moved from Samara to Russia
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Southern Caucasus to Russia

    Place Units - Russians
        10 infantry placed in Russia
        Russians undo move 1.
        1 infantry placed in Urals
        1 artillery and 9 infantry placed in Russia

    Turn Complete - Russians
        Russians collect 34 PUs; end with 34 PUs
        Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 37 PUs
        Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 39 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans regular : -0.67
Russians regular : 1.67

Savegame

@axis-dominion said in L25 PTV Adam514 (Axis+14) vs axis-dominion (Allies):

doubt i’ll be picking up more games until i feel this point is addressed.

I’ve been following this discussion with interest. Adam and I reviewed your recent games involving sea lion.

My personal view. It’s an unlucky coincidence you’ve been bombarded with four sea lion games in a row. And, in at least two of those cases, it seems fairly certain the Axis players will be punished for proceeding with the attack in the face of a full defense by UK.

In the unlikely event that the sealions lead to Axis victory in all four games, the easiest way to address this for future games would be to add a rule, which I call the “Axis-Dominion” rule: sea lion will no longer be permissible in games where Axis-Dominion is playing Allies. We will update Game Notes accordingly.

I hope you win, and we can avoid this. Sealion games are tiresome. Good luck.

well look who finally showed up lol where have you been man??

thanks for offering your perspective as well.

i do like that rule named after me, please implement it!

but really, i’m betting we’ll see an increase in SL games as this catches on more. i’ve always liked an occasional SL to shake things up, but seems to me it can lead to the main option. and as you said, yes, very tiresome lol

@axis-dominion

Hey Axis-Dominion. I always show up for the debates :)

you need to show up to play! how do you design a great game and not play it lol