JAPAN _ trannies vs. IC

It seems to be a popular view that Japan is wasting its money if it buys a complex before it has maxed out the first one (i.e. is transporting 8 units/turn to the mainland).  However, I am of the opinion that 2 tran 1 IC–this is assuming $1 bid to Japan–is the optimal J1 purchase for getting units to the mainland quickly.  There was an old thread (sorry, I couldn’t find the link on my first search and I’m too lazy to look harder) that had some calculations to this effect, but for the short version, consider:
—If you build 3 tran on J1, you can put 8 units in Asia on your second turn.  However, with 2 tran 1 IC you can get 9 units there: 6 from your three transports, and three more from your complex.  With a 2 IC purchase it’s down to 8 again, one from your transport and 6 from your complexes.  (I’m assuming throughout that the UK killed your transport in SZ 59 so that you only have one to start with.)  So if you’re trying to get as many units to Asia on J2 as you can, 2 tran 1 IC is the way to go. 
—4 tran on J1, using a bid of $2, is also a good way to start fast.  However, in this case your capacity outstrips your income; it will be a couple rounds before you can actually get new units fast enough to keep your transports busy.  The 2 tran 1 IC buy is better optimized at keeping your production/transport capacity matched up with the number of units you can afford to produce.  In particular, a 4 tran J1 purchase enables you to put as many as 10 units into Asia on J2 if you clean out Philippines, East Indies, Okinawa, and Wake, but then you run out of island units and can only make up to 8 new ones in Japan.  So you get a lot of inf on J2 but it’s more of an anomaly, where the 2 tran 1 IC buy gives you a smoother and more continuous startup.
—As far as location, I like FIC the best.  Kwang is farther from Moscow than either Fic or Man, so if you’re trying to put pressure on the Russians quickly you want either Fic or Man.  You can supply plenty of troops to the northern area from Japan itself, so the complex is needed more on the southern end.  Plus it enables you to get to Africa, Caucasus, etc better.
—So far I’ve been assuming KGF.  In KJF you should certainly be a bit more hesitant about getting factories up quickly.  However, I’ve found that a FIC complex, which is always where I build on J1 if I build a factory at all, can be very helpful in KJF.  Ideally when defending against an American fleet you want to defend as far out as possible, e.g. with a fleet in the Caroline or even Solomon islands.  However, if you’re forced to fall back, FIC is a great fallback point.  The key thing about it is that it borders all three of your valuable islands.  If you get in trouble you can fall back to SZ 36 and build more ships there to join your retreating fleet.  Often this will be enough to prevent the Americans from taking any of those expensive islands right away.  If your only factory is in Japan you’re forced to keep your navy farther north to incorporate the new builds, and the Americans have an easier time getting to the southern islands.

quite simply, transports have to be defended, and the allies can put have in range alot of threatening airpower before japan’s second turn…  and every ship that’s left defending them reduces your ability to cheaply destroy the various allied fleets that might be making a mess in the pacific on turn one.

Other than that, the additional transports allow for 6 units a turn, similarly to the IC’s.  The additional transports give you the ability to grab guys more quickly from the islands, as well as the ability to push on india and africa faster and harder.  But each of these require some tradeoffs (ideally, mass troops in manchuria, but if india looms you may have to deal with that, slowing the flow of 6 units/per turn.

transports assuming a factory build later also ends up reducing the flow of fast moving armor, if that’s necessary.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m a big fan of transports, but they have their drawbacks too.

You know, I have to admit.  I’ve been cooling it a lot with Japan lately.  Racing out to take over the world looks great on paper, but you have no security on your lines of supply.

I’m also growing to like the Sinkiang or even Novosibirsk Industrial Complex with Japan.  Especially if Germany is getting hammered. (Since it helps you rebuild after an assault on Moscow.)

The idea being, Moscow falls to Japan, Berlin falls to America on the same round.  If Germany owns Caucasus, the allies would be silly to liberate it.  That means Japan could really use the extra 2 units right there in the red zone, and when they DO get Caucasus (if ever) it only helps them more.

Remember, you can always shut down your factories in the rear if they are no longer needed.  No rule that says you MUST use all your factories to their full output capacity, eh?

@AJ:

What is FIDA?

http://aamc.net/bunker/forumsql/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68

All AARevised games played in AAMC use FIDA bidding unless the players agree to another bid system prior to the game starting.  FIDA stands for Flames of Europe, IAAPA, DAAK and AAMC, the four clubs that developed the bidding system.  Under FIDA bidding, each player submits a number of IPCs for a bid.  The lower bid plays Axis.  Up to half of the value of those IPCs can be placed on the mapboard prior to the start of the game in new units.  Germany can place units in territories and sea zones that already contain German units.  Japan can place units in territories and sea zones that already contain Japanese units.  Neither Axis player can place units in territories or sea zones where it does not already have units.  The remaining balance of IPCs from the bid can be given to either Germany or Japan or split in whatever manner the Axis player chooses.

Example of a bid:  15, 1 Inf in Ukraine, 1 Rtl in Libya, 6 IPC Germany, 2 IPC Japan.

Hurts that the Axis start with 12 fighters, 2 bombers between two nations, don’t it?  (I’d count the allied ones, but most of those are destroyed on Round 1. :P)

I believe the trick is to force the Axis to break up their fighter formations over multiple territories, OR, attack territories with AA Guns.  Though, I am always happy when I can take ou German Panzers even if I cannot get their Stutkas.

Normally I would go for transports.
That would be buy two on J1 (fleet total is 3 or 4 now) and on J2 buy one or two more.  Coordinate this with ground unit builds in Japan to fill all the transports and do the infantry push to Moscow.

In the current game, the Allied/UK player (RJ), placed his bomber within reach of Japanese home waters (Novo) and moved his Australian submarine up within reach also (Coral Sea).  This put any unprotected transport build in home waters at risk.  The added cost of either diverting fleet assets to cover them or building cover and still over building to deal with losses actually made me move toward factories on the mainland. Add in that he moved most of his India forces to Egypt and skipped on the UK1 DD vs Trans option.

I built two, one in FIC and one in Manchuria.  Sure, they will never out build the home islands but now my infantry push into Russia is independent of any transport issues.  For 30 IPC I have the equivalent of three transports that won’t sink.  I would have spent 24 for those same three transports plus a DD to protect them (12 more) then probably another transport to replace loses (8 more).  So it was two factories at 30 IPC or 4 Transports and a DD at 36 IPC.  The factories are at least one turn closer to the front so discount a turn of Infantry in the pipeline (6X3=18IPC) and now I have 30 IPC for factories vs 54 IPC for transports, DD, and infantry to fill the pipeline.  I will have to build AA guns for the factories to keep the SBR from becoming annoying but they will also be able to move up with the front lines making my kill stacks harder to hit.

As an additional bonus, I can still add transports to the fleet in later turns and if they are not moving gear to the mainland they are now available to support fleet operations / threaten Alaska/Austrialia/Africa.  This decision meant I could send the homeland transport to Hawaii with the fleet for a low odds invasion of Hawaii and the Kwangtung transport is busy supplementing the mainland, ferrying Inf from the islands, and joining the fleet facing India.

I won’t claim these are perfect moves but faced with an opponent who was looking to disrupt the J1 transport build, it was not a bad counter.  At least, so far…

My approach with Japan the two games I’ve played has been to build IC in India and FIC, build Arm there, and build TRNs also to keep a steady flow of Inf from Japan to Persia. That puts a lot of pressure on Cau to allow either Germany or Japan to take it. Once you have a big Axis presence in Cau, that Sink IC becomes less valuable to the Allies.

In other words, go around it - to the south. Germany can take Cau a lot sooner if Japan is in a position to immediately reinforce with a bunch of stuff.

My tourney game I also faced Russian defence (but no IC) and was also not able to take Sink / Yakut until J5 or so, but still there was enough money that I had 2 ICs and 7 TRNs running. I think Japan’s priorities should be building TRNs, taking Australia / New Zealand / India ASAP (J3) and picking up all the island Inf. Japan’s TRNs practically pay for themselves because of the island Inf supply, and because they increase the value of your forces by moving them to the front much faster.

Haven’t actually faced that American IC in Sink though.

@Craig:

c) Naval units can be placed with other naval units or in territories adjacent to a power’s land

This would create some interesting bids… in games where the bid was high enough
(but with the auction bid system, I doubt there are many bids of + or - 8 or more to allow naval units)