Need to check TUV swing if scramble 3 or not when I get home later tonight, unless you want to send screenshots then maybe I can decide
L25 Playoff OOB GeneralDisarray (X) V ABH (A) Bid 50
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I spent quite a bit of time looking at this.
If either of you doesn’t accept my answer, that’s fine because I’m next opponent. I will select a different top player to adjudicate this if my decision is not accepted.
My take is the same whether I was in this tournament or not. I think it is the opinion a common-sense objective bystander would share.
Facts and considerations I highlight:
- ABH was very polite and patient and careful to document the process throughout.
- General Disarray clearly gave his decision on what should be lost. Save carriers and planes until last, and let a maximum of 1 plane fall in the water if there is a retreat
- ABH kept confirming this
- General Disarray apparently did not look at the map
- ABH typed out all the units that were taken off and left on the board. If you look at this carefully, you see he didn’t lose a single sub. I don’t think General D noticed.
- ABH didn’t quite understand the OOL description and took off a plane when the damaged carrier could have been lost
- The fact that General D chose to damage a carrier in the opening round seems to be inconsistent with saving all carriers and fighters til last
The common-sense opinion of an objective bystander is that if General D were present and playing with you face to face on a board, he’d NEVER have taken off his last destroyer when you were saving all subs
@GeneralDisarray said in L25 Playoff OOB GeneralDisarray (X) V ABH (A) Bid 50:
I cant see the file. I wish I knew what i hit on the crack back. I just want the best outcome of AC and plane and tac units left without falling into the water if you retreat
ABH obliged by typing out the results, and General D responded, apparently consenting for things to continue as they were.
@GeneralDisarray said in L25 Playoff OOB GeneralDisarray (X) V ABH (A) Bid 50:
@Arthur-Bomber-Harris keep the planes and ac till last. Just make sure there’s never a moment you can retreat and the outcome is me losing more than one plane.
I haven’t studied who got better dice. If I wasn’t in the tournament, I would strongly suggest that you agree to go to the moment when General D said “I wish I knew what I hit on the crack back”
With all love and respect for 2 awesome players in the league, both of you contributed to this problem.
When there is a casualty choice, play should stop and the other player open up the map, study the situation and make his choice. Casualty choices should be specific and exact, round by round. Obviously, players get in the habit of facilitating things by giving advance Order of Loss, or saying “save my bombers until last”, but in a mixed fleet battle, General D apparently forgot to say, or assumed it was obvious, “save 1 destroyer if you have a bunch of subs”
But in a big mixed fleet battle, just as ABH warned in advance, this is a big battle and we want to do this right. Since General D repeatedly and clearly said “save carriers and planes, I just don’t want planes splashing in the event of a retreat”, ABH be like, well, that’s crazy, but you said it 3 times.Back to my opinion. Return to the point where ABH took off only carriers and destroyers, and zero subs, and roll from there.
I can understand if there are strong objections to that, especially if dice went crazy before or after, but if I was a non-caring observer who didn’t know the dice, that’s what I would say.That said, if players agree, you can do it however you agree, which might for example include starting over from the beginning. Shoot if you can agree on a fair ending result, bypassing all dice, that would be acceptable as well but you probably can’t do that.
I know full well that General D kept giving the same orders that I would interpret the same way as ABH. Lose the last destroyer before any carriers. But I stand by the conclusion that although I don’t think either of you handled this properly, especially if General D wasn’t looking at a map, there’s no way the General would take off his last destroyer if he was facing off against you across the board so that’s obviously not what he meant to happen.
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@gamerman01 said in L25 Playoff OOB GeneralDisarray (X) V ABH (A) Bid 50:
But I stand by the conclusion that although I don’t think either of you handled this properly, especially if General D wasn’t looking at a map, there’s no way the General would take off his last destroyer if he was facing off against you across the board
I’m anticipating ABH protest to this statement, so I’ll go ahead and say now, that it’s clear you knew General D was making a very questionable decision which is why you were saying, essentially, “are you SURE”? And General D said yes, so you took the opportunity to wipe out his fleet with subs.
If I were you, I would have said “but you want to save 1 destroyer, right”? otherwise, say “I think you need to look at the map”.
No, you’re not required to be a baby-sitter but my opinion is this is just good sportsmanship.BUT this result (18 American subs surviving and 15 Jap planes splashing) WILL NOT STAND UNLESS another veteran player rules that it should stand because technically you almost perfectly followed General D’s ill-advised but yet firm and repeated orders and technically won it fair and square.
Let me know if you want a 2nd opinion due to the fact that I’m next opponent. I think Axis-Dominion should be the decider if my views are not agreed upon by you both
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I just would have used common sense had I’d been able to see it. Feel like I got taken advantage of because the game no longer functions between turns when combat is being rolled. Happy to just conceded to get this done and don’t want any bad blood with the game creator. I’ll post this up in a bit.
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You missed my 2nd post, maybe,
You posted right after itThe result of 18 subs remaining and 15 Jap planes splashing is not OK.
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I am not playing currently but wanna share four thoughts on this:
(1) we are having a great moderator!! not shy to take a position 👍
(2) I would probably have done like ABH has (because I enjoy playing sneakily) - but then hopefully feel convicted by this case not being noble sportsmanship which is characeristic for this league.
(3) The fact of GD not being able to look at map might be essential.
(4) The sneak would have also worked with only one sub remaining, would it have not?
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- There were just 2 transports defending,
Many subs were kept to sink many carriers where many planes could do nothing without a destroyer
- There were just 2 transports defending,
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sure! I already forgot that carriers only attack at 0 🤪
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I have posted the savefiles, provided screenshots, and summarized the unit/dice situation in text also. The choice of losses was made and confirmed and confirmed again despite warnings to select carefully;’ more dice were rolled. The loss decision was a major blunder, but that happens quite frequently in TripleA matches. I allow unlimited edits or changes of decisions prior to dice rolls, but not afterwards. This is the norm in League matches. I am going to claim this as a W.
@GeneralDisarray, I have had enough prior tournament successes and will have a busy remainder of the year. Go ahead and take my spot in the OOB playoff bracket and play Round 2 against @gamerman01 .
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Assuming you two don’t change your mind about anything (the General hasn’t technically lost) and General Disarray does post his loss and it’s official,
It is not the right of the winner in a tournament to appoint someone else to take his place.
Assuming General D resigns, you have to either play me or resign. If you don’t start the game with me, be assured it will not count in the records/ELOHope this helps, so that you can be thinking about what you want to do
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Well then reverse uno card: I resign in this match and take the L. GG General Disarray.
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A Arthur Bomber Harris referenced this topic
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Who was winning this game? LOL
Was it tight until broken by an OOL?
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