Can a damaged carrier keep attacking in round 2 of the sea battle in an amphibious assault?

Thank you very much Panther. This clarifies the question.

Italian canopening is even more effective when combined with the Germany “Dark Skies” option with lots of bombers.  The tanks+mechs+bomber attack options means that the Allies cannot place moderate-sized stacks within two spaces of the German/Italian main stack.  Russia ends up cowering in Moscow with a few minor exchanges each round.  UK ends up with a strong stack near Iraq, never daring to move it too close to the Germans.

Meanwhile the huge range of the German bombers give that power flexibility to find opportunistic attacks:
*Allied ground forces in W. Europe
*Allied ships in the Atlantic
*Allied ships in the Med
*Push into Siberia
*Mid-game Sealion or Egypt attack

I am not saying that this plan guarantees victory, but it allows League players to aim towards eventual victory in G13-17.  Most face-to-face games end up with a Moscow attack on G5-8 when the Axis players just decide that the numbers look close enough.  With the battlecaculator and more time on PBEM/PBF games, Germany can comb through the options every turn and patiently wait for the right opening with a big TUV swing.

@Cow:

You get the middle east by buying air and attacking ground with it.

Air force > Navy in this game

I start with a purchase of 3 CVs for the US.  You can get planes to fill them up later on.  It is nice to stack a bunch of fighters in Midway.  If the Japanese are careless, your planes can hit SZ 6 and then land on the carrier group in CZ7.  It doesn’t happen often, but is beautiful when you can pull off that raid.

On turn 2, I transition to subs and fighters as the primary way to damage their fleet.  You can also convoy raid their economy to bits if you can get a few subs into the appropriate sea locations.

Afterwards, I do mostly subs plus a destroyer.  Depending on the Japanese spending and success against China, I transition to the European side.

@cyanight:

That might be the reason Harris designed it so the Flying Tigers stay in the mainland of China. If Hainan was labeled a Chinese territory then the whole rule on transports could become an issue as well as the Flying Tiger being able to attack units in seazones. The way the game is setup the plane is penned inside of China with the exception of Burma and Kwangtung.And if the Chinese could load onto transports it would be easy to use them with USA since their turns are back to back.

Good theory – that may very well be the explanation.  I’d always wondered why Hainan was incorrectly represented on the game map (from the point of view of which territories were Chinese when Japan started conquering them in 1931).  Formosa and Korea I could understand, since China ceded Formosa to Japan under the 1895 Treaty of Shimonoseki and recognized Korean independence (which proved to be short-lived, since the Russians and the Japanese both had territorial ambitions there) under the same treaty.

@Field:

Interesting read on how you approached SeaLion.� What happened in the Med between the British and Italian fleets on B1?� Also, what is meant by “4 for the guarantee” on your SBR of London?

Thanks

Each bomber that gets through to SBR gets 1d6 +2.  So if a bomber gets through you are guaranteed 2 hits, if two get through, which they did for me - I got the guaranteed 4 before even rolling a die (which was a 6 and a 4)

B1:

Uk1 in the Med was hit SZ96 with everything and stack up there with 2 Ftr on the CV and landing the Tac on Malta.  They didn’t fly their Bomber in from London and instead went after the German BB in SZ111.  They also sent their CR from SZ91 to SZ111, clearing the way for I2 to claim the Med NO.  UK also gave up its TT to get units from Alexandria into Greece - even after I urged them to protect the TT to maintain a threat on Rome while also ferrying Inf from Persia into either Egypt on UK2 or into India.

I1 was a Ftr and I sent the kitchen sink after SZ96 with the exception of a SS that took out the TT off of Greece.

I had a bad roll overall and the UK was able to take out everything but the BB - which I ended up having to tip.  This created issues for me.  I tried to preserve the BB so that I could dump units with my 2 TT into N.Africa, but with that tipped BB and the UK Tac on Malta I had nothing to defend them with.

I kept the TT at home under the cover of 2 Ftr (one purchased, one German) and just moved 4 Inf into Albania for a NCM under the presumption I would reinforce Hungary for Germany while they removed the UK units in Greece.  Anywhere else I moved the two TT, the Tac would have been able to auto eliminate them - take note that even losing the UK ships, the UK could STILL create havoc with aircraft on Malta.

Note that on G2 Germany DID attack Greece, but again strafed and retreated, allowing Italy to take it on I2 with 4 Inf in Albania and blitzing 2 Tanks from Yugo.

France had a choice of going after two TT with 2 Ftr scrambling or removing the tipped BB.  They went after the BB and took it out, but they lost the CR.  They kept the DD because with the SS its 40-40-20 W-L-MAD for the DD versut 50-50 with the CR.

UK2 chose not to go after the TT with its Tac in Malta and I escaped unscathed - but it proved irrelevant because G3 was Sea Lion and they conceded.  I don’t know what the outcome would have been, but I’m sure as Italy I was going to gear up to harass the US as much as possible from getting into the Med while I secured it.

I2 ended up being a full invasion of Egypt - and I was able to clear the Med as well.  So Italy was able to add 10 IPC for two NO’s and was staged to get the third NO on I3 with the I2 victory in Algeria and no units left to stop its move into Morocco.

Southern Africa was a mess for Italy, but with the UK in full defensive it was a matter of time before I was able to advance units south and finish off the units there.

At the end of I2, Italy held S.France (3), Yugo (2), Greece(2), Tunisia(1), Algeria(1), Egypt(2), and Kenya (1).  It also had the clear med NO (5) and controlling 3 of S.France, Gibraltar, Greece and/or Egypt NO (5)

I think by my count thats +22 IPC for Italy from its starting 10 to end at 32 IPC on I2 with a projected N.Africa NO (5), Morocco (1), Trans-Jordan (1) and Syria (1) to end I3.  It looked like I was going to lose Kenya and Ethiopia on Uk3.  Net net I think that was Italy ending I3 with something in the range of 38 IPC to spend on I4.

Overall I wouldn’t have played the UK like that, but it is hard to validate sending everything into SZ97 with 3 Ftr scrambling over the top of it:

3 Ftr, 1 BB, 1 CR (defending) vs 2 Ftr 1 Tac, 1 Bomber, 1 CV, 1 CR, 1 DD (attacking)
60-30-10 odds battle and thats a tough battle to choose on your FIRST turn of the game

You could win spectacularly and shut down Italy for the game, or you could fail miserably and make it even harder for the US to march into the Med.  Especially considering Italy will most likely counter attack any survivors from SZ95 to include a Bomber.

Personally this is my UK move (assuming a German Ftr is in S.Italy):

Hit SZ96 with a DD, Ftr and TacB to take out the Italian DD and TT there.  Land the Aircraft on Egypt and withdraw the fleet behind the Suez.  I move the fleet around the Horn of Africa which takes multiple moves and meet up with the US landing fleets on the outside of the Med in SZ91 on UK4.

So UK1 has the fleet in SZ72.  UK2, SZ71.  UK3, SZ83.  UK4, SZ91 - can land UK aircraft at this point on the CV and you are now in place to help the US either move into the Med or support a landing in France.

Yes, it does give Italy the Med early, but with the UK playing full defensive until Sea Lion goes away, the UK now has a “free” offensive purchase sitting in SZ91 on UK4 - right in time to reinforce the first wave of US TT landing in Gib/Morocco.  Further, by utilizing those aircraft and turtling up on Egypt you can elect to defend Egypt or if you want, support an attack on Iraq on UK3.  If G3 goes by without a Sea Lion, you have the possibility of putting Sea Units in Canada that can also meet up with the fleet on UK4.

You will have 1 DD, 1 CR, 1 CV that the US can count on arriving before Italy or Germany can harass their units.  And if you included 2 Ftr throughout the UK purchases leading up to this, you will have an opportunity to land them on the CV (or US aircraft!).  Its a VERY nice late game swing in sea dominance.  Particularly if you want to stay away from German Aircraft that you don’t kill on UK1.

I’ve learned that its fast and furious early for the Allies, but that plays RIGHT into the Axis’ hands.  Its better to play for the late game moves, conceding the early economic advantages by protecting the “Free” starting assets you have.  By UK4, the economic advantage swings in the Allied favor by a good margin and its better to have more units on the board that you started with than trying to deny the early Axis explosion.

@thoes426:

can subs attack other subs?

if both sides have submarines present in a naval battle with destroyers, the subs must participate in combat. however, as soon as a side has removed all destroyers as casualties and their opponent still has submarines, they may submerge and escape the battle if they wish.

Therefore, during the combat movement phase, a power may choose to attack a lone sub with a lone sub, but during the resolve combat phase the defender may choose to defend and resolve combat or submerge before any dice are rolled (the defender is not required to make that choice until all combat movements are finished).

Remember this: Submarines have 3 special abilities,

1. Submerge to escape combat
2. Pass through hostile sea zones within their movement limit
3. Surprise strike disallowing casualty rolls

A submarine may not do any of these with an enemy destroyer present.

In my experience, people forget to use their own subs special abilities, once their opponent removes their destroyers in the early rounds of the battle.

Ok, my bad, Germany and UK Europe are ok because thay start at war…