OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map

Someone liked a post (not this one) on a 12 year old Sealion thread (shortly after the rules had been firmed up from the Alphas), and I bumped into this nearby post

Apparently I forgot the lessons I had learned. It’s long, but thought you would enjoy:

I wrote this in 2013:

I have never lost as Allies when G attempts Sea Lion
We are getting to the point where we invite a Sea Lion attempt
If you don’t pressure Russia, Russia will kick your butt.  Especially now with the 3 IPC NO per territory, which was another change as of Alpha2/3 somewhere in there.

Dog pile Russia.  If the Allies don’t lose, they win.  If the Allies don’t lose Russia, they will almost always win.  There are exceptions, of course.

To answer the question of the thread “Sea Lion worth it?” I would say, yes, when UK has a lot of money to plunder and you can take it fairly cheaply (without losing your entire fleet to Allied strike after taking) and/or you can take it and hold it at least for awhile.

I would not attempt Sea Lion with less than about 80-90% odds and also a very high chance of losing only a couple of aircraft.  If you’re looking at a 60% chance of taking London with 1 tank and losing most or all of the Luftwaffe - no way.
You don’t win G40 2nd edition just because you successfully took London.
Again, I have never lost after losing London.  It’s best to go full bore after Russia, because Moscow is the biggest threat to the Axis win.

Show me a game where the Axis win after taking London first (in the first 5 or so rounds) and I will show you an Allied player who didn’t do his job, or got horribly diced, or both.  A good Russian player will be licking his chops when he sees the Germans attack London, and should absolutely mop up (assuming London is reasonably defended and G loses most ground units and several air craft, which they almost always will)

New rules that make Sea Lion less rewarding since OOB, Alpha1 version -
Russia AND USA immediately enter the war if London falls
No more NO for London for Germany
AAs can be taken as casualties and UK gets 5
Transport in 113 moved out of range to 114
UK can scramble 3 aircraft from Scotland and UK (for those who don’t remember, weren’t aware, you could not scramble from the UK or Scotland at all, OOB)
Russia gets 3 IPC NO for every single original Axis, pro-Axis Europe/Africa territory (this is a pretty serious deterrent)

I have to give you SOMETHING while you wait!

@oysteilo said in OOB Oysteilo +40 v Gamerman01 with tech - UHD map:

Thanks for the heads up regarding the italy bomber. It will run out of fuel

😜

About the the convoy score. I have no strong feelings about this. I think it could count as dice are rolled, but i can also see that it was not your intention to roll as you are just clicking through it. I play it back to you and you can roll forum dice at beginning of japan (or now) if it was not your intention to roll

We should leave it at 1, thank you for working with me on this very small issue.

I think you deliberately bought nothing with ANZAC, but with the way we skipped it and did it with Russia I’m not totally sure, but I bet you skipped on purpose. I’ll run Japan as if you are saving up for fleet.

I was thinking when you retreated non-amphibious ground units that the air stay in the battle, but the air abandons the amphibious units.

I was fine-tuning when I retreated 1 man to Manchuria, thinking I’d have infantry + 2 fighters vs artillery. Triple A retreated the fighters, I checked the rulebook and Triple A was right.

Even though I’m the rules guru, I think you’ll let me go back and not retreat my man to Manchuria.

To make it fairer, I will re-roll your defense because you missed several times after I made the mistake.

So 2 infantry, 2 fighters vs artillery

[dice 2d6<=1]
[dice 2d6<=3]
[dice 1d6<=2]

Then I edited the wrong territory, and will have to roll Shantung here

3 infantry, 2 fighter vs infantry/artillery

[dice 3d6<=1]
[dice 2d6<=3]
[dice 2d6<=2]

I got some good luck.
I’ll take a man off Jehol since I’m confident you’ll allow the take-back of the nonamphibious retreat of 1 man that ended up being 1 man and both fighters because I was thinking it was ground retreat only. I should have remembered.

If you don’t allow it, then I have a man in Manchuria that retreated, you retain control of Jehol and have an artillery there. But if we were playing face to face, I would have pulled my one infantry back to Manchuria and would have gone to roll the fighters and if you knew your rules you would stop me from continuing rolling, and probably would have allowed me to undo the partial retreat.

Let me know if you protest!

TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 17

TripleA Turn Summary for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 17

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 5 infantry, 6 mech_infantrys and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 techTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Hunan
              Japanese take Hunan from Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 17 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Iwo Jima to 17 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 17 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 25 Sea Zone to Midway
        1 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
        1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 19 Sea Zone to Jehol
        1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
        3 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
        1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to Shantung
        1 armour moved from Manchuria to Chahar
        2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsu to Chahar
        2 fighters moved from Japan to Jehol
        1 fighter moved from Japan to Shantung
        3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Shantung
        1 armour moved from Shan State to Szechwan
              Japanese take Szechwan from Chinese

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in Midway
        Battle in Jehol
            Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 3 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 battleship in Jehol, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 3 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 0/5 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Jehol
                Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Jehol, round 3 : 2/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Jehol, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Jehol
            2 fighters owned by the Japanese retreated
            1 infantry owned by the Japanese retreated to Manchuria
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 7 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 7 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Jehol
            Chinese win, taking Midway from Americans with 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry
            Casualties for Chinese: 2 infantry
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Manchuria: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Shantung from Chinese to Japanese
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Chinese from Shantung: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Shantung: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Shantung from Japanese to Chinese
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Chinese to Shantung: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Shantung: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Chinese from Jehol: 1 artillery
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Jehol from Chinese to Japanese
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Jehol: 2 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Battle in Shantung
            Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry
        Battle in Kiangsi
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 3 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter and 3 infantry in Kiangsi, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kiangsi, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kiangsi
            Japanese winJapanese win, taking Shantung from Chinese with 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining, taking Kiangsi from Chinese with 1 fighter and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
        Battle in Chahar
            Japanese attack with 1 armour, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
            Chinese defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in Chahar, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 2.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese and 1 artillery owned by the Chinese lost in Chahar
            Japanese win, taking Chahar from Chinese with 1 armour, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 artillery and 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Chinese from Shantung: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Jehol: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 artillery moved from Shan State to French Indo China
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to French Indo China
        1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
        4 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone
        5 infantry and 3 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun moved from Manchuria to 19 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Korea to Amur
        1 aaGun and 1 armour moved from Ulaanbaatar to Buyant-Uhaa
        2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Chahar to Kiangsu
        1 fighter moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung
        2 fighters moved from 26 Sea Zone to New Zealand
        1 fighter moved from Hawaiian Islands to 6 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 6 Sea Zone to Japan
        1 fighter moved from 26 Sea Zone to Japan
        1 submarine moved from 63 Sea Zone to 62 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 33 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 26 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
        2 fighters moved from Jehol to 6 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Shantung to 6 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Shantung to Kiangsu
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 19 Sea Zone to Shantung
        4 infantry moved from 19 Sea Zone to Kiangsu
        1 carrier moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Bolivia to Chile
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 73 Sea Zone to 58 Sea Zone

    Place Units - Japanese
        3 mech_infantrys placed in Kiangsu
        3 mech_infantrys placed in Kwangtung
        1 artillery, 2 fighters and 5 infantry placed in Japan
        2 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 0
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 85 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,6
        Japanese collect 68 PUs; end with 68 PUs
        Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
        Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 78 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -2.33
Japanese regular : -2.33

Savegame

TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 17

TripleA Turn Summary for game: UHD World War II Global

Game History

Round: 17

    Purchase Units - Japanese
        Japanese buy 1 artillery, 2 fighters, 5 infantry, 6 mech_infantrys and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; 0 techTokens; 

    Combat Move - Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to Hunan
              Japanese take Hunan from Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 17 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Iwo Jima to 17 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 17 Sea Zone to 25 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 25 Sea Zone to Midway
        1 infantry moved from Manchuria to Jehol
        1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 19 Sea Zone to Jehol
        1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
        3 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kiangsi
        1 fighter moved from Kwangtung to Shantung
        1 armour moved from Manchuria to Chahar
        2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Kiangsu to Chahar
        2 fighters moved from Japan to Jehol
        1 fighter moved from Japan to Shantung
        3 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Shantung
        1 armour moved from Shan State to Szechwan
              Japanese take Szechwan from Chinese

    Combat - Japanese
        Battle in Midway
        Battle in Jehol
            Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 3 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 battleship in Jehol, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 3 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 0/5 hits, 1.50 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Jehol
                Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 infantry in Jehol, round 3 : 2/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Jehol, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Jehol
            2 fighters owned by the Japanese retreated
            1 infantry owned by the Japanese retreated to Manchuria
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Jehol, round 7 : 0/1 hits, 0.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery in Jehol, round 7 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Jehol
            Chinese win, taking Midway from Americans with 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry
            Casualties for Chinese: 2 infantry
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Manchuria: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Shantung from Chinese to Japanese
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Chinese from Shantung: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Shantung: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
            Turning on Edit Mode
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Shantung from Japanese to Chinese
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Chinese to Shantung: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Shantung: 1 infantry
            EDIT: Removing units owned by Chinese from Jehol: 1 artillery
            EDIT: Changing ownership of Jehol from Chinese to Japanese
            EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Jehol: 2 infantry
            EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Battle in Shantung
            Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 2 infantry
        Battle in Kiangsi
            Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 3 infantry
            Chinese defend with 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter and 3 infantry in Kiangsi, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kiangsi, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kiangsi
            Japanese winJapanese win, taking Shantung from Chinese with 2 fighters and 2 infantry remaining, taking Kiangsi from Chinese with 1 fighter and 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
        Battle in Chahar
            Japanese attack with 1 armour, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber
            Chinese defend with 1 artillery and 1 infantry
                Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber in Chahar, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 2.17 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Chahar, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese and 1 artillery owned by the Chinese lost in Chahar
            Japanese win, taking Chahar from Chinese with 1 armour, 2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 artillery and 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Japanese
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Chinese from Shantung: 1 artillery and 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Jehol: 1 infantry
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 artillery moved from Shan State to French Indo China
        1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to French Indo China
        1 infantry moved from Kwangtung to Kwangsi
        4 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone
        1 transport moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Korea to 6 Sea Zone
        5 infantry and 3 transports moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        1 aaGun moved from Manchuria to 19 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Korea to Amur
        1 aaGun and 1 armour moved from Ulaanbaatar to Buyant-Uhaa
        2 fighters and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Chahar to Kiangsu
        1 fighter moved from Kiangsi to Kwangtung
        2 fighters moved from 26 Sea Zone to New Zealand
        1 fighter moved from Hawaiian Islands to 6 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from 6 Sea Zone to Japan
        1 fighter moved from 26 Sea Zone to Japan
        1 submarine moved from 63 Sea Zone to 62 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 33 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 62 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 26 Sea Zone to 1 Sea Zone
        2 fighters moved from Jehol to 6 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Shantung to 6 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Shantung to Kiangsu
        1 aaGun and 1 infantry moved from 19 Sea Zone to Shantung
        4 infantry moved from 19 Sea Zone to Kiangsu
        1 carrier moved from 6 Sea Zone to 19 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 19 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 carrier moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 33 Sea Zone
        1 battleship, 1 carrier and 1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Bolivia to Chile
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 73 Sea Zone to 58 Sea Zone

    Place Units - Japanese
        3 mech_infantrys placed in Kiangsu
        3 mech_infantrys placed in Kwangtung
        1 artillery, 2 fighters and 5 infantry placed in Japan
        2 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - Japanese
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 0
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 85 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,6
        Japanese collect 68 PUs; end with 68 PUs
        Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs
        Objective Japanese 3 Control Honolulu Or Sydney Or Calcutta Or Western United States: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 78 PUs
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Removing units owned by Japanese from Japan: 2 fighters
        EDIT: Adding units owned by Japanese to Hawaiian Islands: 2 fighters
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -2.33
Japanese regular : -2.33

Savegame

Thanks a lot for updating me, although

I’m enjoying the break