Extreme Example Rolls/Battles Changing Strategy

@calvinhobbesliker:

@simon33:

Hmm, interesting analysis. Germany has to really stretch to pull in the 24 inf too.

If a G1 buy of 3mech 3arm where done, it seems to be negative.

What happens when the more usual move of a I2+G3 DOW is done? If the Germans don’t buy fast movers G1, that is what I expect anyway.

Interesting. I had no idea that 6 tanks could potentially make East Poland not stackable…and if Germany buys mechs/tanks G1 in anticipation to bolster it, that prevents them from buying more ships for Sealion.

This is the build that helped us win our first game at YG’s tournament as the allies, and almost always my build with Russia.

Follow up round two with FULL mechanized.  Your force can hold/delay leningrad unless the germans are heavily organized and determined to take it.  Usually this can buy you an extra round or two depending on what the germans are doing, whilst you evacuate your infantry.

@Zhukov44:

There are several good reasons to get an ac instead of a battleship.  The first is that Germany already has fighters to land on the AC.  So with the AC (plus fighters) you get a defense punch of 10, with a count of 4, compared to the bb’s punch of 4 and count of 2.  The second is that you won’t get many bombards out of that battleship unless you are using it in the Baltic.  You might get the one bombard when you attack England, but ultimately that one bombard shot is pretty useless compared to 2 fighters (also 20 ipc) that would participate in every round of the battle.

Another reason is acs extend the range of your fighters.  Unlike ships, fighters can’t be blocked.

Whether you intend to go for London or go for Moscow, there are better ways to spend that 20 ipcs.

Agreed, all good points.

@AK_Grown:

Have not thought about Brazil though

If memory serves, Anzac is one move from Brazil (from NZ).  I’ve seen it done, it really didn’t change the outcome though.

It’s two moves.  Once in a while I’ve had ANZAC take Brazil, but never with an eye towards having them spend the money outside the Pacific.  It feels like a bad idea to do so if Japan hasn’t been neutralized yet.

rmcbride, replies below are in red….

@rmcbride:

@variance:

This is what people usually mean when they say “J3 India crush”:

J1 build 3 transports. �Take Chahar, Anhwe, Hunan, Yunnan. �Land all planes in Kwangsi and all fleet in z36 with transports loaded. �Leave FIC alone for now.

J2 Declare war on all Allies. �Build airbase and naval base in Kwangsi. Sink destroyer in z37 and any other ships that could attack z36 or block transports route from z36 to z39. �Dump 3 transports and 2 Siam guys on Shan State. �Airstrike Burma or Malaya if necessary to stop any attack on shan. �Put fleet in z38 and 3 loaded transports in z36.

J3 take India and land planes in shan state. �

(or you could do what Spendo said and starve them while you walk down thru china)
�

Hey Variance, I respect your play alot as I’ve read these threads & thanks for answering this one, so I would love to try this scenario also but have a few Q’s for you if you could expand on this––You were very detailed in your steps for this, so I’d like to be as detailed in my Q’s that this has prompted as well   :-)

J1) 1)–when you say “land all planes in Kwansi”, I’m counting, for just land based units Japan starts with;8-fghtrs, 5-Tac’s & 2-Bombers. So these planes only or are you also talking about CV based fightrs as well?
Land each and every plane you have in Kwangsi, except the 1 fighter from Korea that will land on a carrier next to Kwangsi. So that’s 10 fighters, 8 tacs, and 2 bombers, plus 1 fighter on the carrier.  The reason you put all your planes in Kwangsi is so you can airstrike Burma if they stack it.

2)–all fleet in sz36;  do you mean EVERY available Sea unit?  & what about the units in sz33, as they obviously can’t make it on J1, as well as that would leave Caroline Island & its resources open to US invasion on US1?
Each and every ship.  The ships in z33 can go through z35 because you are not yet at war with USA.

3-transports loaded; I only count 3-trnsprts that Japan starts w/on the board; 1-sz6, 1-sz19 & 1-sz20.  So if I’m taking all my eastern China units to take out the 4-China territories you listed (that leaves the trns in sz20 w/o available units). So are you talking about just he one in sz6 or are you also loading the one from sz19 w/ units from Manchuria or Korea, which would make only 2 w/4-inf?  
Bring 3 infantry, 2 artillery, 1 tank from Manchuria, Shantung, Japan.  Move everything else to Anhwe/Jehol

J2) 1)–DOW on Allies—thats a Big One!  The US is definitely gonna come a runnin  :?     Which would beg the question–with all that loot now, what are the Germans & Italians gonna do to divert the Pacific attention  away from the US so the Japs can grab the Victory cities before US gets to big in the Pacific, since I presume that w/ the “Crush India” strategy, thats what this is about?
G1 naval build for sealion threat

2)–build Air & Naval in Kwangsi; I’m guessing that you have no fear of Kwangtung walking in w/one or 2 inf to Kwangsi to capture the unprotected Air & Naval just placed for a one round disruption of the plan (because then Hong Kong could just be taken on the next round anyway, Right?   & speaking of HK, when or what is the plan there?
You have plenty of ground coming down from Anhwe

3)–when you say "sink DD in sz37 & othr ships that could attack sz36; the sz37 is actually a BB–but ok.  Then there’s the US-DD & SS in sz35, are you just diverting 1-DD from the sz36 for the SS detection & then hitting them w/CV fighters for the wipe out?  & is this coming from the 1-CV from sz33 or what is your thinking there?
By J2 the BB will be long gone and they will put the destroyer blocker there 99% of the time to save India for another turn

4)–dumping 3-trns & Siam inf on Shan State; I presume those are the trans that were w/ the fleet from J1 (although I only had a possible count of 2-per my previous assessment, unless I misunderstood) & their going into sz38 to unload w/ the balance of the fleet?   Then the 3-loaded trns to be in sz36 were the ones purchased during J1, coming from sz6?
yes.

J3 1)–take India & land planes in Shan State;  Got that one!    
So now w/ India out of the picture, w/ maybe another round of clean-up, is the strategy to take out China’s threat entirely or just keep them @ bay while you start gearing up for the US & ANZAC?  Because by my count, including Hong Kong, you should have 4-Victory cities, 5-soon counting Manila.  But the US fleet should be well on their way, if not already there.  So 1-more VC to get, but is it going to be Sydney or Honolulu?  Seems like the way it should play out is that Sydney would be the more unprotected, but I don’t know?  After J3 & since you hadn’t discussed the DEI, that they’ll be trying to acquire for more IPC & to help the UK, that 6th VC could be a pretty hard get???  But after J3, who wants the game to end that quickly anyway   8-)
Hawaii is a much better target than Sydney.  Take Midway and try to get USA stuck in an arms race by building carriers for all your planes.  That way they cant be much help in Europe and without India Germany will have a MUCH easier time getting Cairo after Moscow, IF the Italians are still afloat.  Notice how on J3 you might not actually have to move carriers to z39 if the Brits navy have fled.  Like others pointed out, it is very important that you keep the pathway from z36 to z39 open for the transports, and you make sure you can’t lose Shan, which is why you airstrike Burma if they stack it.

Should be a fun play!!!  So if you could please refine the above Q’s with some further detail, that would be great!   I’m all about playing & figuring it out, but with someone else’s idea of a whole new strategy, I don’t want to screw it up 2-3 times just trying to get to the way it should have been played for the 1st 3-4 rounds, after that–-its anybody’s game anyway based on the counter moves & how the dice fell :roll:     So thanx again, look forward to the follow-up.

For more and better info about the j3 india crush scenario, look up old posts by CMDR Jennifer.  Good luck with it

@Spendo02:

@Krieghund:

The US cannot win this battle.  The fighters will continue to defend in the air until the battle is over.  The Japanese fighters and US subs can’t hit each other, so the fighters will sink transports until the US retreats.  If the US wishes to conduct this amphibious assault, it must bring units that are capable of hitting the fighters.

This is one of those unique situations where you are required to take Trn as losses before subs because that is all the unit can hit?

Yes.  They just need to be the only legal selection for a loss.  That might mean that planes have no other target (like this example), or that Sub hits have no other ship targets, or that the defenders hit everything else in a round of combat and need to assign some more hits before the defender retreats.  Remember, the defender still has the option to retreat, if they can, and transports are only automatically destroyed when they’re attacked, not when attacking (unless the attacker has no place to retreat).

@Fishmoto37:

A stalemate exists in China. The Soviets moved their 18 infantry back up to threaten the Japanese but have never attacked. Japan was forced to garrison Manchuria. They need those infantry in china as they have mostly expensive units facing the Chinese and Indians. Japan never made it to the Indies as the U.S. had major fleets moving west. The Japanese did defeat an American fleet in the Marianas but with all that income they will be coming again.

After eleven rounds the stalemate in China has been broken and the allies are pushing the Japanese back.  The Indian westward march has been checked by Italy. Japan has broken the Siberian armies and is starting to claim Soviet territory.  12/27/10

IMAG0014.JPG

They be coming soon.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=16012.75

SHARED THIS ON LARRY’S SITE ALREADY, JUST WANTED TO SHARE THOUGHTS HERE ALSO:

Ok Larry,

Me and an official playtester of yours here in Michigan (his name is mentioned in the rulebook for Europe 40) played Global with the new setup given with all the aircraft taken away and such. Here was a short summary of what happened:

On the Europe side:

Germany played pretty predictably, sinking most of the UK navy, taking France and the Eastern European pro-allied and pro-axis neutrals with Italy. They continued to build on their air force to keep the UK from building ships right away. Began to stack some ground units as well. Italy expanded into Africa and shored the Middle East slowly controlling the Med.

UK responded by NOT attcking the Italian navy and pulling back the rest of the navy it had left until it could come back to England with a strong navy that included the US. UK took the Pro-allied Brazil and shucked the troops to Africa to help the SAfrican force which slowly pushed the Italians back up to Egypt turning the tide in Africa.

Russia stedily built a force consisting of infantry spiced with some tanks, artillery, tacs and mechs. Stacking behind some dead zones and waiting for the declaration of war.

US spent about 70-80% of its cash in the Pacific since it could not even approach Africa/Europe before a state of war.

Now for the Pacific side:

India with little cash built mostly infantry and stacked. Combined navy near India and activated the Persian troops to bring back and help defend India. In Global, India has a little more help from some extra troops west and a few ships, including one French destroyer to help defend. Also, it can fall back with its stack to West India if needed.

ANZAC naval base is much needed and I am glad it is there- balances nicely.

China was stonger, but does what it normally does and stacks at Yunnan to wait to wear down Japs. China units are really used as a delaying tactic for the India crush.

Japan didn’t see an advantage to the India crush in J1 but felt that the initiative came to them in J2. They didn’t want to wait until J3 because they felt the Allies would have established a long-term defense of India. So with that the Japs declared war on J2 taking back the Dutch East Indies and unleashing the fury. Japan built transports J1 and J2 and built more planes to replace the ones missing from the new setup in J2.

Now even though both Japs and Allies have the same amount of planes removed, Japan can build them faster and move them closer to the action (India). US could also build their planes back but it takes them longer to get them to the battle scene (India). Brit India and ANZAC can’t build much of an airforce because of the typhoon of Jap units coming fast, so India stacks and ANZAC tries to distract and/or try to send some units.

Japan can make the US wait longer to send ships and planes down to ANZAC by using its navy as a shield. I as Allies, I made tactical blunder ruining my chance to meet the Jap onslaught of India from behind through Australia. However, if not for this the setup seems very balanced and gave some options to both sides.

A hot topic question will be “what to do with the Russian inf on the Pacific side??”
It is very frustrating for the Russians, if you attack immediately, Japan will bring the heat to wipe them out with now China and Russia give large concessions to Japan $$$. If you stack and sit. Japan has to garrison Manchu with a small force but continues to spearhead to India. I figure as the Russians, you have to attack with the 18 inf at some point. The hard part is when. Timing is everything in this decision.

With US entering the war at turn 2, the US began to throw a good amount of cash to the European side, mainly because of the blunder in the Pacific- India would not last long now- 2-3 more rounds. I recovered nicely putting pressure on the French coast quickly until I made another tactical error involving Gibraltar- arrggh!!!- new rules and new map takes a little while getting used to.  :-(

Besides these 2 blunders, I thought the Global game was pretty fair and balanced with a slight edge to the Allies. I definitely think the Allies are a little easier to play because that sides is spilt into 6 sub parts (countries) that are easy to prepare while you are waiting for the Axis to finish. The Axis with so many more units in the beginning, take longer and you have to be very efficient both in the short-term and the long-term planning.

Anyway that was are anaylsis so I hope it helps.  :-)