Does Crete Do Anything ? OOB

@shadowhawk

Agreed.

@surfer

Yeah, you’re right.

@Cernel said in Submarines v. anything that isn't a destroyer:

Here it is an example of the second case:
You have 1 submarine and 1 destroyer attacking 1 submarine alone. The attacking submarine hits.

Excellent example, indeed!

In Revised, the defending submarine fires back.

Correct. As by the rules "Both attacking and defending submarines fire in this [Opening Fire] step. If submarines are present on both sides, they are considered to fire simultaneously. "
The attacking destroyer does not affect the defending sub’s Sneak Attack ability.

In Global, the defending submarine doesn’t fire back.

Correct as the attacking destroyer cancels the defending submarine’s Surprise Strike ability.

The main allied strategies still hold up. The one that becomes more dominant would be shuffling 20 units a round into Spain from USA… But even this has its flaws.

I believe they made Submarines weak for defense to 1 because every single player would pump out cheap Sub. to boost their navy so this allowed great strength for destroyer + “any” attacks to have the advantage.

To have a better base for future discussion on any related topics to Submarines,
here is a revised version of the evolution of the main aspects about OOB Sub rules:

@Baron:

For reference, here is the OOB Submarine rule in different A&A version:

Classic:
1st Ed. 1984: A2D2M2C8, attacking Subs get Surprise Strike, cannot submerge but can withdraw in another SZ, cannot hit air.
2nd Ed. 1986: A2D2M2C8, attacking Subs get Surprise Strike, cannot submerge but can withdraw in another SZ, cannot hit air.
3rd Ed. 1997: A2D2M2C8, attacking Subs get Surprise Strike, withdraw in another SZ, defending Sub can submerge in SZ at the end of the round, cannot hit air.

Iron Blitz Edition by Hasbro and Microprose 1999, A&A 3rd Ed.:
Sub: A2D2M2C8, Surprise Strike on attack only, can submerge in SZ at the end of the round, cannot hit air.
Destroyer: A2D2M2C8 can retaliate even when hit by subs surprise strike and cancel Subs submerge.

Pacific 2001 and Europe Edition 1999:
Sub: A2D2M2C8, Surprise Strike on attack only, can submerge at the end of the round, cannot hit air, cannot be hit by air.
Destroyer: A3D3M2C12, cancel Surprise Strike and allows planes to hit subs.

Revised Edition 2004:
Sub: A2D2M2C8, First Strike (attacker and defender), can submerge at the end of the round, cannot hit air.
Destroyer: A3D3M2C12, cancel First Strike and Submerge.

Anniversary Edition, AA50, 2008:
Submarine: A2D1M2C6, First Strike, Submersible: can submerge in First Strike phase before regular cmbt, cannot hit air, cannot be hit by air.
Destroyer: A2D2M2C8, cancel First Strike & Submerge and allows all planes to hit subs.

1942.1 (2009) : Same as AA50.
Pacific 1940 (2009) and Europe 1940 (2010).: same as AA50.

1942.2 (2012) : Same as AA50.
Plus: prevent unescorted transports from offloading for an amphibious assault.

Pacific 1940 and Europe 1940 2nd Ed. (2012): same as 1942.2.

i have planes from both Oddzial Osmy and Tumbling Dice and I i like both.