@Cpl-Hicks this is why its really cadgy to leave mobility units out of combat for later use/flexibility
Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense
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Distance from London, England to Luqa, Malta, is 2103 km.
The Halifax bomber, the only British plane at the beginning of the game that can reach Malta, has a combat range of 2990 km.
The real problem with destroying Italy is not plane range, but the fact that literally any and every plane is carrier qualified when that is very, very, not the case.
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Anyhow, wanna play a game with me?
I’m the Allies, you’re the Axis.
You only build planes and I don’t build planes.
Let’s see who wins then. Best way to test your hypothesis in my opinion.
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Simple facts,
There was a big black gap in the atlantic at the start of the war where planes where not available. U-Boats had it easier as they where harder to detect.
There is a reason why there where so many escort carriers, if they could just fly planes over those areas they would have done so.Operation pedestal, flying fighters from carriers to malta. About halfway gibraltar and malta they flew off and just made the island.
Doolittle raid, why would they bother if they could just fly off midway and crash on northern china, why bother with extra fuel modified planes and getting carriers halfway the pacific.
Most planes where capable of taking off a carrier just not landing on them, its different with modern planes.
The map is just to small for planes to have these ranges, but then again planes are weird anyway. Most movement represents movement over a longer timeframe, 3-6 months ( lets not debate how many ) but planes it represents the range of 1 day. Especially over water its not like planes can land and refuel.
Giving fighters 2-3 range and bombers 3-4 range would make a huge difference. You would have to station them near the frontlines and naval you would capture more islands. Also remove the islands as a step for planes to compensate a little.
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In fact the gap in the game still exists. Fighters cannot cross from the US or Canada to the United Kingdom in one turn using the starting setup (so no new technology or air bases).
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Fighters are not long range scout planes.
And fighters can get across via island and greenland which was actually allied and could be used for that. And still there was a big gap in the atlantic. There is no zone in the atlantic that allied bombers cannot fly over.
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Doolittle Raid is too small to be simulated here.
And in fact you cannot fly off of Midway and land in China anyways.
Only territories you can land in (if you’re actually bombing Japan, not just hitting sea zone 6) are:
Soviet coastal far east territories (unusable if the Soviets are neutral).
Kiangsu, Manchuria, Shantung, Korea, and Jehol (all controlled by Japan).
So yeah, can’t attack Japan.
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Sure, most planes can hypothetically use a carrier, but I highly doubt all pilots were carrier qualified.
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Pedestal’s the only one with merit.
Not sure what we can do about that, but I guess we shouldn’t do anything, considering everything else is accurate.
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@SuperbattleshipYamato said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:
Doolittle Raid is too small to be simulated here.
And in fact you cannot fly off of Midway and land in China anyways.
Only territories you can land in (if you’re actually bombing Japan, not just hitting sea zone 6) are:
Soviet coastal far east territories (unusable if the Soviets are neutral).
Kiangsu, Manchuria, Shantung, Korea, and Jehol (all controlled by Japan).
So yeah, can’t attack Japan.
Doolittle raid planes landed in japan occupied areas mostly so yea you can. Just that the plane cannot land and fly off again but the range is there.
Just because the default setup has rules that prevents specific attacks doesnt mean the range isnt there. Also USSR can just declare war R1 because there is no penalty and there you go you can do doolittle raid from midway.
Makes you wonder why did the US bother with only 12 planes that where stripped of weapons to carry more fuel and fly them off carriers. Just fly from midway much easier. -
This point has been made multiple times, but perhaps it should be re-emphasized again…
1 Turn is 3-6 months of war time not 1 day. In 3 months, a ftr can go around the world. These units are not single ftrs but squadrons. The range is how far the entire squadron can fly missions and project power over the 3-6 month term.When you are based at a fully functional airport with supplies, the squadron can effectively project power over a larger range. Thus the added movement bonus completely makes sense to me.
Similar arguments are made for fleets of ships.
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👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
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@shadowhawk the game does not have one timeframe for all units and a separate time frame for air units you’re hilarious bud. The time frame for a turn is likely 3/6 months and that’s that. Also some aircraft movement is from point a to point B and it can’t make it back to point A if point b is too far away. The movement system is broken in no way.
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Agreed.
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@surfer said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:
This point has been made multiple times, but perhaps it should be re-emphasized again…
1 Turn is 3-6 months of war time not 1 day. In 3 months, a ftr can go around the world. These units are not single ftrs but squadrons. The range is how far the entire squadron can fly missions and project power over the 3-6 month term.When you are based at a fully functional airport with supplies, the squadron can effectively project power over a larger range. Thus the added movement bonus completely makes sense to me.
Similar arguments are made for fleets of ships.
Except that planes cannot land @sea or in enemy controlled zones where ships can be refueled at sea and tanks can just stop and continue driving. How do you explain a bomber flying from midway and bombing japan home islands? Does it land halfway in the ocean then refuel and take off again?
I agree that airbases would allow planes to be more effective ( scramble option, paratroops ). Their pilots will be better rested and the squadron will be more combat ready true. But it doenst give them the ability to refuel in mid air ( not during WW2 at least )Why didnt the US bomb japan from the start of the war iso wasting loads of men and materials on their island hopping campain. Or even build carriers. Just talk to stalin and bomb japan into submission from midway.
Why would germany even bother with subs if their bombers and fighters could reach all around the UK and well into the atlantic.
In the case of air units the bases are not the big problem its the general range they have.
For naval units. Do ships really go 50% faster if they have better logistical support? They might be repaired and provisioned easier and will be more combat ready but travel 50% faster? -
@shadowhawk said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:
Makes you wonder why did the US bother with only 12 planes that where stripped of weapons to carry more fuel and fly them off carriers. Just fly from midway much easier.
There were actually 16 modified B25s that took off of the Hornet during the Doolittle Raid. Modified to increase the standard 1,200 mile range. They launched about 820 miles from Tokyo, 200 miles more than planned, due to being seen and reported by a Japanese picket boat. Midway is 2,548 miles from Tokyo. Since the bombers all crashed from lack of fuel they could not even make Tokyo from Midway less alone fly on to China.
One crew did fly on to Russia since they were dramatically short on fuel. They were interned and “escaped” a year later. Since Russia was not at war with Japan the crews were given orders not to fly to Russia.
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@AndrewAAGamer said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:
@shadowhawk said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:
Makes you wonder why did the US bother with only 12 planes that where stripped of weapons to carry more fuel and fly them off carriers. Just fly from midway much easier.
There were actually 16 modified B25s that took off of the Hornet during the Doolittle Raid. Modified to increase the standard 1,200 mile range. They launched about 820 miles from Tokyo, 200 miles more than planned, due to being seen and reported by a Japanese picket boat. Midway is 2,548 miles from Tokyo. Since the bombers all crashed from lack of fuel they could not even make Tokyo from Midway less alone fly on to China.
One crew did fly on to Russia since they were dramatically short on fuel. They were interned and “escaped” a year later. Since Russia was not at war with Japan the crews were given orders not to fly to Russia.
Indeed that was my point. That bombers cannot reach tokyo from midway. Yet in the game there is no problem and you can ( given you must land in japan occupied areas. Since the bombers for the doolittleraid where modified you can even argue they where long range and then in game you can just bomb japan from midway.
The whole argument was that air range is way to big and that increasing their range is silly. The range on air units how you try to spin it is just not realistic. There is no way a WW2 era bomber could fly from midway to tokyo. Does not mather if it has 3-6 months to get there it just cant.
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@shadowhawk without bonus movement it would take america two turns to get from eastern US to Africa (on some not all maps). Not saying I disagree with your idea but that maps were designed with bonus movement in mind.
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@surfer said in Bonus Movement is Unrealistic Nonsense:
This point has been made multiple times, but perhaps it should be re-emphasized again…
1 Turn is 3-6 months of war time not 1 day. In 3 months, a ftr can go around the world. These units are not single ftrs but squadrons. The range is how far the entire squadron can fly missions and project power over the 3-6 month term.When you are based at a fully functional airport with supplies, the squadron can effectively project power over a larger range. Thus the added movement bonus completely makes sense to me.
Similar arguments are made for fleets of ships.
Agree. Its based on time frame that’s why they can make it that far based on turn times. LOL We have planes flying 4 (carriers), 5, 6 and 7 before AB +1 and bonus plus +1 tech. lol But we have this based on time frame and how thousands of planes were shot down, crashed or were lost. Also depends on how many sea zones you have.
At least in my game there is a lot of islands you can’t hit in 1 turn unless your maxed out in movement. W E works great in game if you want all action plus DF and ship AA. -
You do realize the US did exactly what you said, right?
But Stalin was like “no”, so the US had to find an alternate way of bombing Japan, and that’s by fighting through a lot of islands to get to Guam
The US certainly wanted to be able to use Soviet Far East bases to bomb Japan.
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@shadowhawk
Ah, I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about real life and not the game.
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