submarines, transports and surface ships attacked by air units

@morvill said in Submarine & Fighter attack, Fighter DD defense - Retreat Rules:

To me, it seems like because the 2 defending fighters have a valid target, that being the 1 attacking fighter, this condition is not met. And it does not specify “All units of a particular type”, so we can’t say the destroyer was “all units” in any sense. I don’t think I’ll see any disagreement on that. Thus, another round of combat will ensue unless the attacker chooses to retreat. The submarines cannot submerge at any other point than step 2 of the General Combat Sequence, thus for the subs to remain in the sea zone, another round of combat must persist, otherwise they must retreat “with” (the fighters remain the sea zone as part of their retreat) the fighter. Yet, if the attacker chooses to press, the subs do not have any valid targets for the next round of combat. Again, they could choose to submerge, but you could also surprise strike at “no units”, which to my knowledge is neither allowed nor disallowed by the rules, at least in this context.

Correct. It doesn’t matter whether or not all units on both sides have a valid target, only that at least one on each side does. If the attacker decides to press, all units will remain in the sea zone, even those that don’t have a valid target (the subs). If the attacker decides to retreat, all attacking units must retreat. As you say, the subs can submerge in the next combat round, but the only reason for them to do so would be so that they can remain in the sea zone if the attacker decides to retreat at the end of that round, as they are effectively out of the fight anyway.

Not sure if this is relevant, but per the rules:

Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn’t include submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to a power on the other side with which you are not yet at war doesn’t make
a sea zone hostile.) pg. 8

The friendly/hostile state of the sea zone has no bearing on combat. That is relevant only to movement.

Unit Cost AA Pacific_Europe_Global 1940 2nd edition.pdf

I think the rule changed to give more power to destroyers as sub hunters.

@General:

If you do it early enough you can take Gibraltar without the need for a navy. It does open up more landing spots for the Allies but taking the base from them is a hindrance to the American player. And if you maintain parity with the Soviets above the Black Sea you can then undercut them through the Caucasus.

Unlikely to be worth it though. Opening up the weak points in both Spain and Gibraltar doesn’t help the Axis. And those 8 inf in Turkey are a real pain to take out.

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=37883.0

HI knp. I would pull the TT back, unless the US did not have a Mech in the West ir a second TT. In which case, I would drop one of my adventuring Inf units in Alaska.

@thoes426:

can subs attack other subs?

if both sides have submarines present in a naval battle with destroyers, the subs must participate in combat. however, as soon as a side has removed all destroyers as casualties and their opponent still has submarines, they may submerge and escape the battle if they wish.

Therefore, during the combat movement phase, a power may choose to attack a lone sub with a lone sub, but during the resolve combat phase the defender may choose to defend and resolve combat or submerge before any dice are rolled (the defender is not required to make that choice until all combat movements are finished).

Remember this: Submarines have 3 special abilities,

1. Submerge to escape combat
2. Pass through hostile sea zones within their movement limit
3. Surprise strike disallowing casualty rolls

A submarine may not do any of these with an enemy destroyer present.

In my experience, people forget to use their own subs special abilities, once their opponent removes their destroyers in the early rounds of the battle.

you have to balance the Japan opening w/the European side of the board.    J1 attack was great in Pac40 as we all know, but do you really want to put the US to 80 IPCs on US1?  Ask the Nazi next to you if HE wants you to do that.