How many Tachibana class escort ships be made with the first 30% of a Yamato class battleship?

For those who don’t know, Shinano was originally planned as a Japanese Yamato class battleship. However, midway through construction Japan decided to convert it into a carrier.

Not an aircraft carrier though, a “support carrier” which would only carry 47 aircraft for self defense but held almost a hundred more aircraft as spares and many supplies to support the actual fleet carriers on extended operations. It was sunk by a US submarine in 1944.

Another such support carrier actually did exist, the HMS Unicorn.

What if the Shinano was converted into an actual fleet carrier though? It takes space to house not just replacement aircraft, but additional pilots, mechanics, etc.

So Shinano probably wouldn’t have been able to carry the 120 aircraft it theoretically could’ve. But it still probably would’ve carried a lot of aircraft owing to its size.

The question is, how much? I look forward to your responses!

Part of the problem that the US Navy ran into when it went to war was that – like many military forces before or since – it had to learn some things for itself before it believed them.  The British had over two years of experience fighting the Battle of the Atlantic at that point, but the Americans didn’t feel that they needed any advice from them on the matter.  It didn’t help that Admiral Ernest J. King was an Anglophobe, in addition to having a generally abrasive personality.  (His wife reputedly once said: “Ernie is the most even-tempered man I’ve ever met.  He’s always in a foul mood.”)  As a result, the Americans made mistakes in their early ASW methods of operations which could have been avoided.  In fairness, the US Army had similar learning-curve problems in North Africa, notably at Kasserine Pass if I remember correctly.

The Italian ones are new to me, only because they were never discussed.  However there are plenty of records of the ones in action during the Phillipines and South Pacific Campaigns (JFK, etc.) which gave them plenty of heroic press.

Hands down, US Fletcher class destroyer. 175 built, the next two US destroyer classes based off of it. It was the destroyer that screened the US carrier battle groups. 5 duel purpose 5" guns, numerous AA guns, 10 21" torpedo tubes (only effective after the US solved its torpedo problem). speed, 38 knots. a true warship. also, one could argue they won the war for the US. It was basically the Navy’s version of the Sherman tank. plus, the last one was decommissioned in 2001, so a life of 57-59 years depending on when it was commissioned.

@Imperious:

Yep thats pretty much the sinker.

Id like to see a poll on the best Great War Battleship

The Great War is awesome to study. Wish I knew more about the ships of that era.

@KurtGodel7:

@Imperious:

But short of that I think they could have won if Japan even made the gesture of attacking Russia.

The forces in the ‘far east’ didn’t cause Hitler to lose, Hitlers decision to attack Stalingrad and how he did it destroyed his chances in 1942.

In 1941 The winter caused Hitler to lose because he didn’t prepare for it and underestimated the Soviet army. Those forces were just icing on the cake used for the foiled counteroffensive, AFTER the Germans failed to take Moscow. The battles just before Moscow at Vyzma are the ones that cost the Germans too much time, so they didn’t get to Moscow in force after fighting 5 Soviet Armies.

“Contrary to German expectations, the encircled Soviet forces did not surrender easily. Instead, the fighting was fierce and desperate, and the Wehrmacht had to employ 28 divisions to eliminate the surrounded Soviet armies, using forces that were needed to support the offensive towards Moscow. The remnants of the Soviet Western and Reserve Fronts were able to retreat and consolidate their lines around Mozhaisk.[22]  Moreover, the surrounded Soviet forces were not completely destroyed, as some of the encircled troops escaped in groups ranging in size from platoons to full rifle divisions.[23]  Soviet resistance near Vyazma also provided time for the Soviet high command to quickly bring some reinforcements to the four armies defending the Moscow direction (namely, the 5th, 16th, 43rd and 49th), and to transport three rifle and two tank divisions from the Far East.”

I hardly think “three rifle and two tank divisions from the Far East” were the cause of the German failure. The weather and Hitlers unprepared logistics past a campaign of over 4 month duration were catastrophic.

If Japan attacked Russia it would have done nothing except expose yet another front to them and cause a 3 front war for Japan. The balance of the Soviet forces on the border were more than enough to wipe out the japanese Kwangtung army as they did in 1939.

Japan would gain nothing but another defeat, and tie up units that were used after Dec 41 in a protracted battle. Declaring war and doing nothing was not an option either. Stalin would go on the defensive if he was engaged with Germany. If Japan didn’t get her feet wet, the ploy would fail and 5 divisions still head toward Moscow. If they committed, it would have hastened japanese defeat in Asia. Stalin had more than enough forces for both once Moscow was protected.

You are obviously very familiar with this period of history. I think that the forces from the east to which the earlier poster was referring may have been the 100 divisions the Soviets shipped west during the winter of '41 - '42. After the Japanese attacked Britain and the U.S., Stalin knew they would have little attention to spare for a war against the Soviets.

I agree, however, that Stalin was probably guilty of being overly cautious on his eastern front, and that he could have safely sent large numbers of divisions westward against Germany regardless of what Japan did.

1905 may have played a role in Stalins units  in the East.

@RJL518:

i sometimes wonder what would have happened if Germany had put together a massive battle fleet in the Atlantic like Japan did in the Pacific

They  didn’t have the naval knowhow that Japan and US had. The Germans had plans for building carrier vessels, but they weren’t able to do it.

But if they had done it, it would be much easier to knock out UK pretty early, and then Barbarossa also would be easier, but far from guaranteed.

Also, imagine being on the flight deck when you fired those things off.  Say good buy to sound.

With the Russian design, you would also have to be careful not to fire the guns pointed over the flight deck, or you’d blast away the deck with just the fireballs.  :-D