L21 playoff OOB jkeller(X) vs trulpen (L+43)

I apologize I got emotional and said something I shouldn’t have I just know I’m right and felt like you guys are ganging up on me because I’m the new guy. Here are all the cases where loading transports is disallowed. Let me know if you see this situation there.

“During your Combat Move phase in which you entered into a state of war, your transports that are already in sea zones that have just become hostile may be loaded in those sea zones (but not in other hostile sea zones). In effect, transports may be loaded in their initial sea zones for amphibious assaults before war is declared, while the sea zone is still friendly.

Leave the sea zone, load units, and return to the same sea zone to conduct combat (you can’t load units while in a hostile sea zone),

Transporting Multinational Forces: Transports belonging to a friendly power can load and offload your land units, as long as both powers are at war. This is a three-step process:

1. You load your land units aboard the friendly transport on your turn.
2. The transport’s controller moves it (or not) on that player’s turn.
3. You offload your land units on your next turn.

Transports can move to friendly coastal territories and load or offload cargo, unless they loaded, moved, offloaded, or were involved in combat during the Combat Move or Conduct Combat phase.”

So that is literally everything in the rulebook pertaining to loading transports. None of them disallow it in this situation. In fact In case of multinational it’s almost an identical situation . The last bullet is closest to disallowing it but if you read it carefully you can see it is referring to moving the transport to another sea zone which is clearly not possible as the transport participated in combat phase. But since it was not loaded or unloaded in combat move or in combat it can still load so long as it doesn’t move. And again the reason I know that (other than the multinational example which pretty much makes it clear that loading a transport is a move by the land unit and the transport moving between sea zones is a move by the transport) is that it specifically says moving to a “coastal friendly territory” and also it uses the word “and” instead of “or”.

@trulpen but it doesn’t say “either or”. Those are your words. It uses the word “and”. And also the fact it specifically refers to moving to a “friendly coastal territory” means it is referring to one continuous action. Moving to a friendly coastal territory AND loading or offloading. Other wise why would it have to be a friendly coastal territory. It could simply say “moving OR offloading”. It’s referring specifically to ther combined action. So it’s saying moving to a friendly coastal territory to load/offload but by not disallowing staying out and loading/offloading it is implying it is legal because by default “ A transport can load units while in any friendly sea zone along its route, including the sea zone it started in.” After dd is cleared the sea zone is obviously friendly at that point. The transport is not participating or moving in this phase only the land units are.

But let’s step back and think also what is logical here. Should an island nation like Japan be held back completely by one destroyer? Despite having 50 times the force in the region it can never move any material from its homeland to other theaters of war? Clearly this is not what the game makers intended. In such cases unless the letter of the law is VERY clear to the contrary then we should err on the side of spirit of the law. And if anything the letter of the law is on the other side. The fact a few people here are considering transport to be “moving” in the noncombat phase when it is in fact not moving ( as made very clear in multinational force case) means it’s perhaps our internal bias that the transport is making a move but it’s not in the rules as stated.

Well even though it makes no sense and the wording does not indicate that loading is not allowed he did as you say quote the same section as you. Very disappointing to be honest I would rather take the loss on this game and have them interpret that rule differently because it really diminishes the realism of this version of the game unnecessarily in my opinion. But like good lawyers we have to use the rulebook to our advantage whenever possible to be the best players we can be whether the rule makes sense or not so there is no shame in that! This is a game after all! Unfortunately for me from reading the rule it was not at all clear to me that was the rule in fact I still believe the way it was written it implied moving for the purpose of loading was disallowed but not loading per se. So it does make it difficult for me in this situation but oh well it is what it is.

“ once a unit has moved or been involved in the combat phase, it can’t do anything at all in the noncombat phase with the exception of planes. I didn’t see you respond to these points I made.”

I did actually. Just like a multinational transport the transports are not moving from the docks in Japans harbors so are not doing anything at all in noncombat; the land units are simply loading onto them. But we have heard from the ultimate authority and no set of rules is perfect so we just have to live within the rules that are set for us, in life and in this game!

Do you want to make the edit as to what you will allow me to change as well as your own changes due to the ambiguity and difference in interpretations of the rulebook? I don’t want to presume anything else at this point LOL. Hopefully like you said we can continue on in good fun in this and other games. I do apologize again for any insinuations of bias etc

@trulpen unfortunately due to the rules reading that way which was very misleading to me at least I made buys of transports and troops in Japan based on that 🤦‍♂️ As well as forgoing reclaiming money islands and basing my entire fleet in Japan etc etc so this has really screwed up everything

@jkeller its ok lets just play on

@gamerman01 yeah I think the rules don’t exactly make sense in that way but it is what is. I’m no military expert but at least from my understanding transports don’t participate in combat much (other than to hide)especially in a home port and don’t really do much in loading either. But them’s the rules we have to play by so what it is what it is!