Ya but every thing is raised +1 across the whole game for AD
So far Allies 3-2
But should be 4-1. Axis had 1 tank in coast city. Allies Didn’t bring enough troops.
It was nice had allies attack St. lo on T4 or 5
Added a few pieces to setup. 3 extra paratroopers and a few tigers late on card and AD@5 I think M1 only. Moved 3 block houses off coast on upper left side of map and put in 2 more against big US beachhead and other one against other US beach head.
This is the map I use.
Better take d day discussion to correct thread from now on
DA6E0A3F-2E5B-4517-B1B4-BDFC48594DD2.jpeg
House Rules Compilation & Discussion: Oil!
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For me and after trying a bunch of different ways for oil seems the best outcome anyway on my game is what I have.
Allies really had no problem getting oil. UK after 1940 when Persia area fell they got most of there oil from Venezuela. But UK did get Iran back with Russia based on both attacked together in 41 in separate territorial attacks. They didn’t like each other at the time. On my map history wise Russia controls northern half of Iran and UK southern half of Iran.
Yes I can see oil shipment boats from refineries could be hit by axis in the Atlantic. I did test in game if a enemy sub was in a sea zone touching a territory with an oil refinery you could convoy attack it. You would lose I believe a flat rate of 3 icps from your income representing oil transport ships being sunk. Now you could play remove right away 3 icps from your income or wait and see if allies try to kill the sub before the penalty kicks in at end of your turn. Also the refinery could be SBR up to 3 damage.
I think this type of raiding was stopped because we went to oil derricks. It got to strong in certain areas like UK and Dutch islands and depleted Japans income to much. Just more ideas here. And also there’s enough convoy boxes on map to include oil basically.
Like G40 map the convoy boxes should be a bit further out in the Atlantic.My opinion is the to keep it simple and have the oil mostly more important in game for the Axis at key locations based on the oil producing chart in war. It would be great if UK didn’t destroy there oil wells in Burma when Japan started to invade. This would help Japan get another bonus point if controlled. Probably with so much fighting there they Japan didn’t have the option probably to repair them wells.
But funny thing is they brought engineers or repair men from Japan and used the captured workers on Sumatra and Borneo to help rebuild them oil wells that UK/FEC destroyed when Japan attacked in Dec 41 and a bit later.Not a big fan of pentalizing a group of units whether ground, navy or planes. It can affect the game more on this scale level. I like it best in smaller version games like Barbarossa where only a small fraction are affected based on more territories in them game maps.
OK had my say so I’ll chill out now. lol
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@Imperious-Leader’s Oil Centers
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/15500 & various other places (help me out here, @Imperious-Leader)
Territories have Oil Values, and Oil limits both production and movement of mechanized units. Total values = total number of mech units that can be bought or move that turn.My idea is that enemy oil centers are possible IPC producers each turn with a roll of one D6, however the first turn of capture you don’t receive any income to model the fact that the original owner player damaged the facility. Every other turn just roll D6 and add to production. Neutral oil centers are treated the same way. The other idea is you must own at least one oil center, or you must roll a D6 and that result is removed from your production each turn. Also, while you don’t own any oil centers, your land units all move one space.
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Depends on what you want in game and I get what your saying.
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@imperious-leader Thanks IL, I’ll update the summary above. I like that idea from the KISS principle, and also that in your rules oil is something you can - but probably shouldn’t - ignore. I also like that denying oil to your opponent functions like a free SBR raid…
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It’s already in your list
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@general-6-stars said in House Rules Compilation: Oil!:
It’s already in your list
Right, I just wanted to clarify the particulars. Is there a thread for your rules to which I can link, @General-6-Stars?
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No not at this time. I could make a list or something It’s in 2 areas in my rules
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I can post my oil rules and oil bonuses in my game thread on site here.
Then if you want post it at top of your thread
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@general-6-stars said in House Rules Compilation: Oil!:
I can post my oil rules and oil bonuses in my game thread on site here.
Then if you want post it at top of your thread
Added your rules to my first post, General. Now I’m reading through the entirety of your amazing thread! :)
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Here’s fodder for discussion; what about a system where, in the Collect Income Phase, Each functional Oil Derrick to which you can trace, from an IC, some uninterrupted direct link (TBD; maybe through unoccupied convoy zones and/or land TTs) grants that IC one “Oil Barrel”. During the purchase units phase, that barrel can be “traded in” for a discount on a unit/group of units, according to some simple schema like the below (ignore “wheat” and “iron” for now):
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@vodot interesting. Is this how the chart reads, 3 oil barrels = 1 AB at reduced cost of 12 bucks ? 1 oil barrel = 3 Medium Tanks at reduced cost of 5 bucks a piece ? Have to buy all 3 ?
Oil Derricks number are fixed ? Can’t create any new ones ? Or can the Texans keep drilling lol
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It looks that way barnee. Ya I go with continuous open route by land and certain sea zones. But I’d give the attacker some bonus for blocking oil like make the cost go up for your pieces. Thinking most won’t leave a ship for block or inf without some reward and just get killed possibly.
Also if u go with wheat and iron then need to add copper/brass ammo, motors etc.and rubber for wiring.
Is this mainly for G40 ?
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@vodot Are the prices the costs over two or three turns? So a medium tank takes 3 turns to build? Or am i missing something??
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Don’t think so IL. Looks like u can buy 3 med tanks at 5 icps per turn
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@barnee said in House Rules Compilation: Oil!:
@vodot interesting. Is this how the chart reads, 3 oil barrels = 1 AB at reduced cost of 12 bucks ? 1 oil barrel = 3 Medium Tanks at reduced cost of 5 bucks a piece ? Have to buy all 3 ?
Oil Derricks number are fixed ? Can’t create any new ones ? Or can the Texans keep drilling lol
The intent of that table would be that you can trade in an oil barrel for a $1 discount on up to 3 tanks, or two oil barrels to get the discount on up to 6 tanks, one oil barrel for a $2 discount on up to two fighters, etc… You wouldn’t have to buy all 3 tanks/2 fighters etc.
@general-6-stars said in House Rules Compilation: Oil!:
It looks that way barnee. Ya I go with continuous open route by land and certain sea zones. But I’d give the attacker some bonus for blocking oil like make the cost go up for your pieces. Thinking most won’t leave a ship for block or inf without some reward and just get killed possibly.
Also if u go with wheat and iron then need to add copper/brass ammo, motors etc.and rubber for wiring.
Is this mainly for G40 ?
RE: G40, yes that’s the ruleset I’m primarily thinking about for the above, with the hope being that if it can work there it could work pretty much anywhere. I think a simplified version could maybe work for AA50 as well.
RE: more resources (aluminum etc.) yes more resources could of course be incorporated. It might get a bit ridiculous managing a Catan-style hand of resources in a game of A&A, but maybe that would still be fun if it was simple enough.
RE: Penalizing powers for not having resources, here’s a slightly different table that takes more of that approach (and also standardizes the value of each unit of resource at 3 IPC). In this table. units have a lower base cost in IPCs, as long as you also consume one or more special resources as shown for their construction.
Then the idea would be that any missing resources you do not spend could be “bought” for 3 IPC each. Therefore a battleship costs 14 IPC + 1 Oil + 1 Iron. If you don’t have (or don’t want to spend) the Oil or Iron then you can still build a battleship normally, but it will cost you the full OOB price of 20 IPC: 14 + 3 (for the missing oil) + 3 (for the missing iron).
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So basically an oil barrel is worth money based on you sold it over the market and collected money for it ?
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@general-6-stars said in House Rules Compilation & Discussion: Oil!:
So basically an oil barrel is worth money based on you sold it over the market and collected money for it ?
Yes, particularly on the second version - each oil barrel in that scheme is worth a fixed amount of money, but you can’t just exchange it for IPCs - to use the barrel you have to use the $ towards building mechanized units.
In the first example it’s more subtle, as the discounts apply to different units in different ways (since oil is more important to some units than others). Either way it’s similar; essentially oil = money/discounts for producing mechanized units.
The way this is written currently would encourage powers to lock down multiple sources of oil (because each barrel/source would count individually as money/discount), but we could also structure it more like an on/off switch:
“if a power has access to at least one source of oil, then a set of reduced costs apply. If not, the default cost set applies.”
The above would be a sweeping change amounting to a wholesale cost restructure, but we could soften it by limiting the reduced cost to just the first of each type of unit built by a power each turn; so the first tank built by a power with oil might cost 3 while any additional tanks would cost 6 as normal, etc.
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The funny thing is the axis would of never sold there oil based on how much they needed it. It would make more sense to have a movement penalty. But we have to some how implement it in some way to hurt a country for lack of oil and mostly its icps.
I’m not trying to be negative here. Based on my test play with a penalty movement based on lack of oil hurts to much in game on this scale. But that’s IMO.What I’m going to do is setup G40 map, and place all oil derricks in game with iron, wheat, copper and rubber tokens in certain territories that I have play tested with in
my game many times. I think for every lack of oil barrel 1 territory with ground or planes moves -1 or 1 fleet. You would roll a d6 and results would be 1-2 ground, 3-4 navy, 5-6 planes. You can pick the territory or fleet. Then use the resource tokens for cheaper builds. My opinion is this is the way it should be. Allies will have the advantage but then sea convoy raiding by axis would be huge. Problem is you won’t hurt the US to penalize them.Anyway you all can disreguard this idea if you want but Vodot has a good idea chart so far. I’ll just make a chart with all resources.
Vodot
You have a oil derrick location list yet ?
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@general-6-stars said in House Rules Compilation & Discussion: Oil!:
The funny thing is the axis would of never sold there oil based on how much they needed it.
I agree - I didn’t mean that they’re selling the oil - the idea is that the oil is a crucial component of the production and operation of that unit. If a power doesn’t have the oil, then they have to pay more IPCs to field that unit, with the extra IPCs representing having to buy, synthesize, or cannibalize the oil from somewhere else. Does that make more sense?
…movement penalties for units
As I wrote in my discussion, I think movement and performance penalties for out-of-supply units is a great idea and definitely historical, it’s just a little too complicated for what I’m currently thinking.
Vodot
You have a oil derrick location list yet ?
No, there are so many great lists out there already - yours, ILs, buran’s, siredblood’s etc. My thing is more analyzing rules and mechanics - I’ll gladly lean on the historical research and knowledge of the willing! Plus I would rather come up with a system that could be modular - applied to a variety of maps and other systems.
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Getting back to design, I think that on the “each unit uses 1 barrel” model, I would need each source to produce more than one barrel, and maybe a few ‘tiers’ of oil sources; not individual 0-15 values like Buran but at least “minor” & “major” tiers that produce 2 vs. 5 barrels each, or something like that.
The same would go for any other resources. I would expect several of the powers to have sources close (or in) their capital territories, but those could be restricted to ‘minor’ sources to encourage going after major sources elsewhere. Large maps with dedicated city circles may not have this issue to the same extent.
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