Scramble Normandy and 114. Not 113.
L22 Martin (X) - Feltmarskal (L+24) BM
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Game History
Round: 9 Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 2 artilleries, 1 carrier, 1 factory_minor, 5 infantry and 2 transports; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat Move - Japanese 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from British Columbia to Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba Japanese take Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba from British 1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 8 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 armour moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 armour, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Philippines to 35 Sea Zone 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 35 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 armour and 2 infantry moved from 36 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 tactical_bomber moved from 35 Sea Zone to 46 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 42 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to 56 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 35 Sea Zone to 55 Sea Zone 1 mech_infantry moved from Kiangsu to Jehol 1 mech_infantry moved from Anhwe to Jehol 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Hunan to French Indo China 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Kiangsi to Jehol 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 42 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 artillery moved from Borneo to 43 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 transport moved from 43 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 1 artillery moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java 1 submarine moved from 39 Sea Zone to 37 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 38 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Anhwe 1 fighter moved from Alaska to 8 Sea Zone 2 fighters moved from Alaska to 1 Sea Zone Combat - Japanese Battle in 46 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 tactical_bomber Americans defend with 1 transport; ANZAC defend with 1 transport 1 transport owned by the ANZAC and 1 transport owned by the Americans lost in 46 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 14 Casualties for Americans: 1 transport Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport Battle in Java Battle in 56 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber ANZAC defend with 1 submarine Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber in 56 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/3 hits, 1,50 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 submarine in 56 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the Japanese and 1 submarine owned by the ANZAC lost in 56 Sea Zone Japanese win, taking Java from Americans with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2 Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer Casualties for ANZAC: 1 submarine Battle in 55 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers ANZAC defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers in 55 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1,67 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 1 destroyer in 55 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the ANZAC lost in 55 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for ANZAC: 1 destroyer Battle in Jehol Japanese attack with 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 2 tactical_bombers Russians defend with 1 aaGun and 3 infantry Russians roll AA dice in Jehol : 1/3 hits, 0,50 expected hits 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Japanese lost in Jehol Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber in Jehol, round 2 : 0/4 hits, 1,50 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 aaGun and 3 infantry in Jehol, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter, 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber in Jehol, round 3 : 1/4 hits, 1,50 expected hits Chinese roll dice for 1 aaGun and 3 infantry in Jehol, round 3 : 2/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits 2 mech_infantrys owned by the Japanese and 1 aaGun owned by the Russians lost in Jehol 1 fighter owned by the Japanese and 1 tactical_bomber owned by the Japanese retreated Chinese win with 3 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -14 Casualties for Japanese: 2 mech_infantrys and 1 tactical_bomber Casualties for Russians: 1 aaGun Battle in 1 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 fighters Americans defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters in 1 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 1,00 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 1 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits 1 fighter owned by the Japanese and 1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 1 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2 Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer Battle in 8 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 destroyer and 1 fighter Americans defend with 1 cruiser Japanese roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 8 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0,83 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 cruiser in 8 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,50 expected hits 1 cruiser owned by the Americans and 1 destroyer owned by the Japanese lost in 8 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 4 Casualties for Japanese: 1 destroyer Casualties for Americans: 1 cruiser Battle in French Indo China Japanese attack with 1 armour, 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers British defend with 3 armour; UK_Pacific defend with 1 factory_minor Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in French Indo China, round 2 : 1/7 hits, 3,17 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 3 armour in French Indo China, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,50 expected hits 1 armour owned by the British lost in French Indo China Japanese roll dice for 1 armour, 2 fighters, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in French Indo China, round 3 : 3/7 hits, 3,17 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 2 armour in French Indo China, round 3 : 2/2 hits, 1,00 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the Japanese and 2 armour owned by the British lost in French Indo China Japanese win, taking French Indo China from UK_Pacific with 1 armour, 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 12 Casualties for British: 3 armour Casualties for Japanese: 2 infantry Non Combat Move - Japanese 1 fighter moved from 1 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 8 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone 1 aaGun moved from Amur to Korea 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Jehol to Kiangsu 2 aaGuns moved from Hunan to Kiangsi 1 transport moved from 42 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 56 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 55 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from 46 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to Kwangtung 1 carrier moved from 42 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to 36 Sea Zone 1 battleship, 2 carriers and 1 cruiser moved from 42 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 6 Sea Zone to 35 Sea Zone Place Units - Japanese 1 carrier and 2 transports placed in 6 Sea Zone 1 factory_minor placed in Korea 1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Kiangsu 1 artillery and 3 infantry placed in Japan Turn Complete - Japanese Japanese collect 64 PUs; end with 64 PUs Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 67 PUs Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 72 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Chinese regular : 0,00 Americans regular : 1,17 Japanese regular : -4,33 UK_Pacific regular : -0,50 ANZAC regular : 0,50 Russians AA : 0,50 -
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No thank you, no scrambling.
I believe this is the first time ever that I see a battle taking place in Alberta Saskatchewan Manitoba :slightly_smiling_face:
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Congratulations - I resign! The Allies’ victory cannot be prevented. It was a bad start for me from round 1. I learned from you the move with the UK in round 1, landing all aircrafts in Greece. Very interesting - I will try it out as well! :-)
See you in a re-match, potentially in June. I will post the result during the day.
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M Martin referenced this topic on
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I give up! You won again - I need to figure out how yo can be beaten :-) Well played! I posted the result.
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@feltmarskal
I got thes other game going with AndrewAAGamer, he took india from me round foour and moscow round six but i was fucked from the start. -
@martin said in L22 Martin (X) - Feltmarskal (L+24) BM:
Congratulations - I resign! The Allies’ victory cannot be prevented. It was a bad start for me from round 1. I learned from you the move with the UK in round 1, landing all aircrafts in Greece. Very interesting - I will try it out as well! :-)
See you in a re-match, potentially in June. I will post the result during the day.
Actually this move is illegal. The UK air units may not land in Greece the same Turn that UK lands ground forces there for the first time.
Per the Europe 1940 2nd Edition Rules - Page 22 (Bold added by me)
Air Units: An air unit must end its move in an eligible
landing space. Air units can land in any territory that
was friendly (but not friendly neutral) at the start of the
current turn. -
Thank you very much, Andrew!
England landed in Greece and let the air force land there, in round 4, preventing Italy from taking it back the same round. In the following round, the UK forces including these planes destroyed the Italian forces with the planes, which would not have been possible without the illegal landing the round before. Germany was then forced to take troops back from Russia to counter the British forces, and these forces were greatly missed in Russia.
I was so impressed by this new “tactic”, that I applied it myself in round 1 against elche, although not with the full British air force… It is the same situation here: Germany had to send forces to Greece instead of Russia, and I appear to be winning that running game with the Allies. So much about knowing the rules…
Well, this is unfortunate, and I do not know how to treat this situation: Apparently, I lost this same partially due to the illegal move which was weakening both Germany and Italy. And on top, I am now winning a game due to the same illegal move.
I guess the right thing would be to annul both games :face_with_rolling_eyes:
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I don’t have enough experience in this league to know how they handle issues like this. My guess is there is no official statement.
As a non-interested bystander I would think the following options are available:
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Null the game(s) due to the illegal move
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Revert back to the moment the illegal move occurred and continue the game(s) from there
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Let the game(s) stand since the illegal move was not discovered by either active Player
Personally I would favor the nulling option if it was my game.
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You might think about asking Panther or Gamerman01 for an official answer.
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Thank you again, Andrew - your advice is highly appreciated. I like the options you proposed and prefer the nulling option. Resuming the match just before the rule breaking might not worked, as the plan to have the plans land in Greece will have influenced Feltmarskal before; and it might then be him who is disadvantaged.
In my other game, where I copied the miracle tactic, this happened in round one, so I will propose annulling and re-starting the game with the same bid.
I will ask the the persons you mentioned.
Best regards,
Martin -
@gamerman01 @andrewaagamer @feltmarskal
Dear Gamerman,
Can you please kindly have a look at the situation described below and advise how to solve this?
This is related to the illegal landing of the British air force in the freshly taken Greece and the further disadvantage of the Axis, namely Germany. It is impacting this finished match and also another running game of mine. I both cases, neither player did notice the error.
Thank you very much in advance for your help,
best regards,
Martin -
Yeah, this is why some things should be resolved on a case by case basis.
Because it was round 4 (lots of hours in the game), and because it was a significant move (especially with 5 fighters and a bomber in a key spot), and because I’m reading that you both missed it (which you apparently both did since you kept playing), I think you should try to agree on where to go back to, and play from there.
If both players agree, go back to the UK4 non-combat phase, the purchase phase, or any other point before that like beginning of US4 if the Allied player was planning on making this move he didn’t know was illegal. (Just suggestions)
If you both agree to go back but can’t agree on when, then I think it should be UK4 beginning of non-combat phase.
I see the Allies are ahead in total unit value by about 550 at the end of UK4. I have tracked TUV by turn in many games that I’ve been in, and 550 is a competitive game, with maybe the Allies having a slight edge, so without studying the game at all, it seems going back to round 4 would maybe be fair for both. But again, both players must agree, otherwise the game will not count. In the league, if both players agree you can do almost anything.
Probably the Allied player had been making moves or at least planned the UK move thinking he could land planes on Greece immediately, and the Axis player wasn’t aware he couldn’t. Therefore neither player has the right to demand, whereas normally the one who made the illegal move would be at the other’s mercy.
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G gamerman01 referenced this topic on
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Thank you very much for your analysis and explanation - much appreciated!:+1:
I propose to jump back to round 4 UK non-combat move phase or before.
I will do the same in my other running match. In the other match, I didn’t wait for too long but executed the mistake in round one, LOL.
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Dear all, @gamerman01 @andrewaagamer @feltmarskal @elche
Inspired by Feltmarskal’s “magic move”, I unknowingly broke the same rule when playing against elche. I informed elche that my landing of the UK air force in round 4 was against the rules. Elche acknowledged that this had no material impact on our game mechanics and the game result, and he just accepted my victory. I shall do the same and accept my defeat against Feltmarskal.
Luckily, this chapter is now closed, and some of us increased the level of rule knowledge ;-)
Thank you all for your help – it is a great community!
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Thanks for gracefully closing the issue!!
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