J2 attack

@morvill said in Submarine & Fighter attack, Fighter DD defense - Retreat Rules:

To me, it seems like because the 2 defending fighters have a valid target, that being the 1 attacking fighter, this condition is not met. And it does not specify “All units of a particular type”, so we can’t say the destroyer was “all units” in any sense. I don’t think I’ll see any disagreement on that. Thus, another round of combat will ensue unless the attacker chooses to retreat. The submarines cannot submerge at any other point than step 2 of the General Combat Sequence, thus for the subs to remain in the sea zone, another round of combat must persist, otherwise they must retreat “with” (the fighters remain the sea zone as part of their retreat) the fighter. Yet, if the attacker chooses to press, the subs do not have any valid targets for the next round of combat. Again, they could choose to submerge, but you could also surprise strike at “no units”, which to my knowledge is neither allowed nor disallowed by the rules, at least in this context.

Correct. It doesn’t matter whether or not all units on both sides have a valid target, only that at least one on each side does. If the attacker decides to press, all units will remain in the sea zone, even those that don’t have a valid target (the subs). If the attacker decides to retreat, all attacking units must retreat. As you say, the subs can submerge in the next combat round, but the only reason for them to do so would be so that they can remain in the sea zone if the attacker decides to retreat at the end of that round, as they are effectively out of the fight anyway.

Not sure if this is relevant, but per the rules:

Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn’t include submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to a power on the other side with which you are not yet at war doesn’t make
a sea zone hostile.) pg. 8

The friendly/hostile state of the sea zone has no bearing on combat. That is relevant only to movement.

Unfortunately, my forum play is sporadic with all my kids as I prefer f2f -can actually ignore family and concentrate on rollin the bones.

Japan may be able to take any IC that the UK has/builds in Africa/Mideast.  A Japan that does a J4 along with sending its entire fleet into the Indian Ocean to take Egypt is tough to beat along with a successful German G1.

Also if Japan holds off until J2 to DoW, but the US player is either dead certain it will happen or hopes to discourage Sea Lion, they can slap a Naval Base on Greenland and load it up with their starting Atlantic forces US1, then drop the troops off in Scotland or Ireland US2.  If London is saved at that point, you’re still in a decent position to threaten landings from France to Norway, or even farther if the UK player can be accommodating enough to give you a Naval Base.

My USA purchase is always 1 Carrier for New York, and 1 Carrier, 1 Battleship for San Fran. The only exception is if there is a U-Boat threat in the Atlantic right away, (destroyers and scramble fighters) or if Japan goes pearl harbour (subs and scramble fighters).

Simple answer: Never
Complicated answer: Never

The original strategy was no secret what Japan was doing.  It was hauling units back and dropping serious money on transports.  The idea was to get them next to W. USA/Panama or one space away so you could close the Canal and take W. USA before America could build enough to stop you.  Meanwhile, the Germans had to be in SZ 91 with some transports of its own, it was like 10 transports and units in Gibraltar./SZ 91 so they could attack E. USA or E. Canada.  That made it so America lost Panama and W. USA but could build enough to stop an E. USA attack but not enough toliberate W. USA and E. Canada.

It was almost unstoppable.  Or rather, I have never seen anyone stop it.  (Putting that disclaimer on so that Jimmy/Jim dont start threads about how to stop Operation American Eagle, etc.)

@ghr2:

US can DOW on the axis after Londong falls?
After US declares war collect income turn 3, it gets the bonus income from the NOs right?

Yes, the US can declare war on any or all Axis if London or any territory in North America is captured.  This is in the Alpha+2 rules, not OOB.
Yes, assuming the US hasn’t been brought into the war before round 3, they can declare war on any or all Axis on the collect income phase and immediately goes to a war footing which enables all the US national objectives.
@Piet:

Ok thanks alot.
So just for my understanding:  without any Japanese DOW to UK, ANZAC or US, the US may declare war in the collect income phase of US3.
With such a declaration, or if London/a North American territory is captured, the US may declare war on the combat move phase of the US turn following a Japanese DOW.
And an attack on Russia by any of  Japan/Germany/italy does not influence the US DOW right ?

Yes.
Yes.
Correct.  Any action against Russia does not affect the US and visa versa.