J2 attack

@morvill said in Submarine & Fighter attack, Fighter DD defense - Retreat Rules:

To me, it seems like because the 2 defending fighters have a valid target, that being the 1 attacking fighter, this condition is not met. And it does not specify “All units of a particular type”, so we can’t say the destroyer was “all units” in any sense. I don’t think I’ll see any disagreement on that. Thus, another round of combat will ensue unless the attacker chooses to retreat. The submarines cannot submerge at any other point than step 2 of the General Combat Sequence, thus for the subs to remain in the sea zone, another round of combat must persist, otherwise they must retreat “with” (the fighters remain the sea zone as part of their retreat) the fighter. Yet, if the attacker chooses to press, the subs do not have any valid targets for the next round of combat. Again, they could choose to submerge, but you could also surprise strike at “no units”, which to my knowledge is neither allowed nor disallowed by the rules, at least in this context.

Correct. It doesn’t matter whether or not all units on both sides have a valid target, only that at least one on each side does. If the attacker decides to press, all units will remain in the sea zone, even those that don’t have a valid target (the subs). If the attacker decides to retreat, all attacking units must retreat. As you say, the subs can submerge in the next combat round, but the only reason for them to do so would be so that they can remain in the sea zone if the attacker decides to retreat at the end of that round, as they are effectively out of the fight anyway.

Not sure if this is relevant, but per the rules:

Sea zones are either friendly or hostile. Friendly sea zones contain no surface warships (this doesn’t include submarines and transports) belonging to a power with which you are at war. Hostile sea zones contain surface warships belonging to a power with which you are at war. (The presence of a surface warship
belonging to a power on the other side with which you are not yet at war doesn’t make
a sea zone hostile.) pg. 8

The friendly/hostile state of the sea zone has no bearing on combat. That is relevant only to movement.

@barnee thanks heaps!

From many games of trying both J1 and J2, I have found that the former is more advantageous if you have average luck.  The latter is a better choice if you are worried about getting diced by a stubborn UK battleship that never misses while your blind Japanese pilots circle around hopelessly.  J3 just plain stinks and is usually a sign of a novice Axis player.

I think, that I would have scrambled with 3 fighters to SZ110 because of the lack of sub fodder and 1 fighter to SZ109.
In my turn I would have attacked the remaining sub(s) in SZ109 with SZ106 destroyer and air to prevent convoying.

Inf + tank, for the reasons mentioned. Plus, that combo actually has a slightly better chance of killing the defender in the first round, though the difference is small.

Thanks you two.

Strafe attacks would be the only possibility as you mentioned ShadowHAwk, but sods law if you strike too well! But it’s another curious question sorted out as there are many odd cinereous un answered here in this wonderful game haha

BH

@simon33:

I’ve never had much success with going after India as Japan. I’m wondering if it is better to just contain it.

BTW, I don’t think you should send the 2 UK fighters to Malaya as the Allies. You need 3 fighters to defend against SBR by 2 bombers.

India can definitely be taken, but the Pacific Allies can definitely make it a pain for Japan.  I’ve lost India, but never within the first five or six rounds.

They’re made at the beginning of the Conduct Combat phase, before any combats are resolved.