The Map Modification Question

Ok carry on and finish up your work. Great!

Do you want me to make it to your map, or to the Out of the box map?

Do you want me to make it to your map, or to the Out of the box map?

huh? i dont understand?  again: no changes to the OOB map. If you want to have something for the modified map just get it to a point where you feel its finished.

Hey Imperial, maybe a few map changes won’t work. I’m thinking of only two changes anyway. Like splitting Norway into 2 territories: Norway and Finland. And separating Greece and Italy instead of the collective “Southern Europe,” so Italy can have at least 4 VCs

Yes and when we get to Italy we will have to look into that. The Balkans are too big. Poland should be seperate… but that would become a Xeno game and we aint making one! Lets stick to the fact pattern and keep only the historical rules consistent with realism and a map with only a few new colors for Italy. People have to be able to play the varient w/o having to redraw all over the map. Italy and its solution will involve just reassigning some territories to her. Southern europe, balkans, lybia= 10 IPC thats Italy in a nutshell.

10 IPCs? make sure people still wanna play Italy…

Well, when we get to that point, I will post my variant for Italy that I have playtested over and over again and I have done away with all bugs. We should focus on getting the rules and other things of that sort worked out first, all the easy stuff can come later.

If germany is at 40 Italy is or cannot be more than 10-15. Italy was in the tank and not even ready for a world war. Thay had no idea what they were doing in WW2… WE could make it 12 so say they can build 4 infantry per turn? … just look at the Soviet Union at 24 IPC… your saying that Italy was even half of the full soviet war time economy?  I have Mark Harrisons “the economics of ww2” and Italy sucks by comparison. They should start with a good sixed navy and army but have a low producing capability.

Actually their armed forces weren’t stronger than Russia’s. They didn’t have carriers, their tanks were flawed, etc. But still to balance the game do give them a strong army.

right large army and limited resources to build/replace loses.

we can incorporate some loan from pappa germany rules when we do lend lease. 12 IPC would be ok for italy

Is that 12IPC part of Germany’s income?

Our rule for for US’s lend lease is free IPCs not part of US’s 42IPC income.

I would like to see Italy at least get 12 to 15, but then you would have to change land values

go back to the original idea behind Italy:

It is offsetted by a lend lease program to the Soviets.

10 IPC can be loaded to the Soviets by UK/USA and this aid is free and does not reduce the economies.

the offset is now Germany is worth 10 more IPC so germany does not now goto 30… because now Southern Europe, Lybia, and Balkans are the new Italy.

net result:

Germany no longer has S europe, Balkans, Lybia AND stays at 40 IPC

Italy is now carved out into a nifty 10 IPC producing nation with a strong navy to start.

The western allies are getting to loan up to 10 IPC to Soviets or even UK to offset Italy.

If Italy need more money she will have to capture some of Africa.

Also optionaly we allow germany to loan a limited amount of money to italy 2-5 IPC max.

Also the Lend Lease to Soviets are carried by special chips under a tranny ( use coins) it can be attacked or intercepted.

Summation:

now we have given the Soviets some support because we no longer allow UK /USA  to land in soviet territory

WE install some kind of submarine warfare allowing germany to have a idea to actually build subs, when before they didnt

now Italy is carved out and the income loss does not effect germany

Italy never owned anything that we have not allready given her. Italy in invaded Albania and attacked greece… for that we can give the the balkans… its not really realistic but its close… lybia was part of italy as well as S europe. Thats it. 10 IPC

Germany no longer has S europe, Balkans, Lybia AND stays at 40 IPC

Southern Europe + Balkans + Libya = 10 IPC

So among the rest
Norway, Western Europe, Germany, Eastern Europe, Belorussia, Western Russia, Ukraine SSR, ALgeria…need + 20 IPCs

They have to go up on average 2-3 IPCs each.

Also the Lend Lease to Soviets are carried by special chips under a tranny ( use coins) it can be attacked or intercepted.

should lend lease distribution among transports be visible to all players?
or should US write it down on a piece of paper?

So among the rest
Norway, Western Europe, Germany, Eastern Europe, Belorussia, Western Russia, Ukraine SSR, ALgeria…need + 20 IPCs

They have to go up on average 2-3 IPCs each.

++++ why? to balance this perfectly germany only goes up 10 IPC

+++ so now germany stays at 40, Italy at 10, western allies get 10 to loan to UK / Soviets… everything balanced right?

Quote
Also the Lend Lease to Soviets are carried by special chips under a tranny ( use coins) it can be attacked or intercepted.

should lend lease distribution among transports be visible to all players?
or should US write it down on a piece of paper?

++++ good points… was thinking to keep it simple and its obvious that every turn somebody is getting up to 10 IPC each turn.

example: USA loans 4 to UK and 6 to Soviets… the load is based on that can be carried under normal conditions thus you will need 2 trannys to do this each turn. The money should be visible. The idea of empty transports is too much accounting. Germany knows an empty tranny =money UK is not gonna waste its trannies using an empty decoy tranny.

so basically to loan =the load

you can loan either 4,5 or 6 to each nation because if you loan 3, then 7 must become 6 ( losing one) because we do not allow carry back ( saving up) that would be the simple plan. If you want to allow saving account method, then it must be written down, plus the tranny can only carry a max of 6 IPC so you will have to allocate extra tranny when you splurge. what you think?

@Imperious:

you can loan either 4,5 or 6 to each nation because if you loan 3, then 7 must become 6 ( losing one) because we do not allow carry back ( saving up) that would be the simple plan. If you want to allow saving account method, then it must be written down, plus the tranny can only carry a max of 6 IPC so you will have to allocate extra tranny when you splurge. what you think?

Ok, I understood the above paragraphs but not the last one. You kinda babbled a little bit

Each turn 10 IPC is loaned out. If the money is not spent its lost. Secondly, the lend lease is transported exactly as if you were landing a unit in Russia thus you have to look at the carrying capacity of the transport and send the money AS IF it was actual pieces. Thus the allies are really landing infantry, art, and tanks and thats what russia will get. Under this system you just dont use the pieces. Under a NA for somebody they have this idea… we just did away with the piece to avoid clutter. If you want no restriction on what a tranny can transport and allow the soviets the ability to use the money any way they want that could be easy as well.
comments?

+++ so now germany stays at 40, Italy at 10, western allies get 10 to loan to UK / Soviets… everything balanced right?

you’re right…I got confused earlier

@Imperious:

If you want no restriction on what a tranny can transport and allow the soviets the ability to use the money any way they want that could be easy as well.

Yeah I think better to transport IPC (war material) than “artillery/tank divisions”.
Just decide on how much a transport can carry. 6 IPC is ok too.
To have less writting down I am fine with just making lend-lease distribution among transports visible to all players.