Who would win between a production model Panzer eight Maus and a production model O-I super heavy tank?

Hello, my daughter found a fascinating letter from her great great uncle who arrived on the Normandy beaches D-Day +13 (19-June). He was British army royal signals. Sergeant Frank Sandys 2591478.

I’ve looked at the NARA database and some of the other posts about LST logs on here, but I’ve not been successful in locating any information about Frank’s two journeys. Unfortunately, I haven’t got the vessel registration numbers of either. Any advice or help would be greatly appreciated. Or indeed any information that would help build a bigger picture for my daughter of Frank’s journey and experience through Normandy as the campaign continued.

The initial LST left just after midnight in the morning of 18-June and in the heavy storm the cargo doors were broken open at 4:00 and the ship had to return to a port in England. It was apparently not repairable and Frank the British artillery and US forces with them boarded another landing ship tank which set off at around midnight on the 18th. They arrived in the early hours of the morning on the Normandy beaches on the 19th.

There was a major Richard Milliken, who may have been with Frank he sadly was killed by a German 88 mm shell in a vehicle with two other officers on the 20th of June (the day after Frank arrived).

I’ve shared a transcript of Frank’s letter below for anyone who might be interested in the personal account of those days. I think it gives a fascinating insight into that generations quiet stoicism and understated fortitude under fire and deprivation.

I’ve copied below a transcript of the letter and the timeline I created. We found records at the British National Archives in Kew (War Office ‘diaries’) that record Major Milliken’s death and the two other officers and we found their war graves. If anyone would like more information or the original images of the letter, let me know and I’ll post them also.

The new baby at home that Frank refers to, that he doesn’t know the name of yet, is my daughter’s still living grandad 🙂

Transcript:

2591478 Sgt Sandys. F.,

Csos Branch,

HQ Second Army Main,

B.W.E.F.

23 Jun 44

Dear Eldon and Ruth,

It’s a bit late in the day to be writing to thank you for your good wishes and cigarettes which you sent for my birthday, but I can assure you that the delay has not been indifference on my part. I was delighted with your long letter and very pleased to have the cigarettes (at the time I hadn’t got any, and couldn’t get any). Together with, a small parcel from home, and letters from Wilfred and Charlie, they all made the day a pretty good one. Thanks very much for everything anyway.

When we arrived in France your letter saying that you now have another son, was waiting for me.

Congratulations! I understand from a letter mother has since sent that both Ruth and the youngster (I don’t know what you have decided to call him), are doing well and I sincerely hope they are well and still progressing.

You would be thankful, I’m sure when it was all safely over and you had another boy in your family. Have you, I wonder, decided his name? You’ll have plenty to do for the next few months, what with Michael and the new arrival but as Eldon says, when they get a little older, as Michael now is, they are very good company and provide endless interest.

I should like to send something along for him, but at the moment it’s not possible for there are no shops here, and no facilities of any kind.

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You will have had father over since the event. Mother told me that he came up and apparently had a quiet journey - not many people on the train – far different to what he expected in fact.

I am sorry not to have written to you sooner but, during May and till the invasion started we were literally working night and day, and found it hard to get a few hours sleep even.

When D day came, however, things started to slacken off on the clerical side, but loading & packing was then the order of the day. This was a lengthy business on account of the waterproofing of loads, and all papers etc, but it was finished eventually with a few hours

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to spare, and we were called forward for shipment in the early hours one morning. The order was a typical Army one, for we were all asleep in the tents when the Rsm came round and told us all to be at a point 2 miles away, with all our kit inside 15 minutes. Needless to say, we hung around all that day, moving towards the embarkation point, with our lorries, at the rate of a ½ mile in an hour. In the evening we embarked on a Yankee L.S.T. and sailed in convoy about midnight or shortly afterwards. The sea was rough, and being a flat bottom ship, she rolled abominably. You may have seen this type of ship in Glasgow. They are quite big really and take a fairly heavy cargo.

Fortunately, I and the Draughtsman Sgt managed to get one of the few bunks which were available in the ship and so got in a little shut-eye till about 4 am when we awoke to the sound of terrific thuds against the ship’s side and the ship trembling as well as rolling. This didn’t make me feel very happy but when I saw the crew, with whom we were sleeping, getting on their M. West lifejackets, I felt genuinely alarmed. What had happened was that the Bow doors – huge things which are used for loading vehicles off the beach, had broken open with the rough sea, and were swinging against the ship’s side every time she rolled, making a terrific din and shaking the whole ship. Furthermore, the hold was taking water and the vehicle hold already had six inches in it.

We dropped out of the convoy then with a Corvette standing by about

one mile away – not near enough for my liking. At dawn I went on deck but it was impossible to move about. The crew were all clustered round the bows and waves coming over them every few minutes whilst the ship’s side rails were alternately in the water as she rolled. Presently we turned around and Major Millikin [sic: Maj R. Milliken 123370] who was in charge of our party said we were returning to England. We were only sailing very slowly now and so we continued for about 2 hours when the Capt. turned round again and continued to port in reverse – stern first.

We arrived in harbour about 2pm, staying on the ship till about dinner time the following day when we went into dock. Apparently nothing could be done about repairs as later in the afternoon, we left the dock and sailed up coast

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to the beach where unloading could take place. At tea time we disembarked and were provided with cigarettes, chocolate, biscuits, newspapers and a good meal.

I must say the yanks do you very well on the ships – the food was excellent – all tinned but really good stuff and plenty of it.

It was funny to see all the lads dashing off to the nearest pub as soon as we disembarked, only to find when they got inside that they had only French money in their pockets, having changed all English money previously.

We hung about the beach for 4 or 5 hours watching ships loading and unloading and landing craft disgorging long lines of wounded, until we embarked in another ship ourselves about midnight.

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We sailed again that night and arrived here at dusk the following night, coming ashore after dark. It was just coming light when we were passing through the first French village and very strange it all seemed in the half light.

When we arrived in our area it was raining heavily and it continued to do so all day which wasn’t so good whilst we were erecting tents, particularly as each tent had to be dug in 2 ft or so. However we worked hard and finally completed the putting up of camp by tea time.

The following day Maj Millikin [sic: Milliken] and 2 other offrs were killed when a shell hit their vehicle. It is very noisy around here with bombing and A.A. Once or twice the Germans

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have shelled our area with their 88 mm guns, but didn’t do much damage and there were only a few casualties.

We are situated in a farm. There aren’t many French civilians about but what few there are look remarkably well fed, and prosperous for an alleged starving country. Prices seem to be high though for they charge 5 francs (about 6d) for an egg, if you can get one.

Our own food isn’t so bad though. All canned stuff, of course, but quite good apart from the hard biscuits instead of bread. Your jaws tire before you’re full, eating these biscuits.

Today is a beautiful hot day and I’ve taken the opportunity of having a bath – 2 biscuit tins,

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full of water, a piece of canvas for a little screen, all the lot underneath our apple tree, is how I organised it.

Well, I’m afraid I’ve gone rambling on in this letter, longer than I intended. I should be glad tho’ to have a few lines from you to hear how baby is going on.

Thanks again for the birthday present. Hope you are all well.

Love to you all,

Frank.

Abbreviations:

Sgt = Sergeant

Csos Branch = CSO’s Branch = Chief Signals Officer’s Branch

HQ = Headquarters

B.W.E.F. = British Western European Force, later redesignated British Liberation Army (BLA)

Rsm = RSM = Regimental Sergeant Major

L.S.T. = Landin

g Ship, Tank

M. West = Mae West

A.A. = Anti-aircraft

Timeline:

Sergeant Frank Sandys’ Normandy Timeline (June 1944)

Pre-D-Day (May 1944 - June 6, 1944):

Activities: Frank was engaged in intense, “night and day” clerical duties until the invasion started.

Post-D-Day Preps (June 6, 1944 - approx. June 16, 1944): After D-Day, clerical work “started to slacken off”, but “loading & packing was then the order of the day”. This was a “lengthy business” involving waterproofing all loads and papers, which was eventually finished with “a few hours to spare”. This period covers roughly 10-12 days after D-Day.

First Embarkation & Incident (Estimated: June 17, 1944):

Early hours: Frank and his unit were “called forward for shipment” from their tents.

All day: They “hung around all that day, moving towards the embarkation point, with our lorries, at the rate of a ½ mile in an hour”.

Evening (about midnight or shortly afterwards): They “embarked on a Yankee L.S.T. and sailed in convoy”.

LST Incident & Return to England (Estimated: June 18, 1944):

~4 AM: Frank awoke to “terrific thuds against the ship’s side”. The “Bow doors…had broken open with the rough sea”, and the “hold was taking water”.

Dawn: They “dropped out of the convoy” with a Corvette standing by. Major Milliken confirmed they were “returning to England”.

Journey to Port: They sailed “very slowly” for “about 2 hours”, then the captain turned around and continued to port in reverse, stern first.

~2 PM: They “arrived in harbour”.

Time in England & Second Embarkation (Estimated: June 18 - 19, 1944):

Remainder of June 18th - Dinner time June 18th: They stayed on the LST in the harbour until “about dinner time the following day when we went into dock”.

June 18, 1944 (Later Afternoon): “Apparently nothing could be done about repairs as later in the afternoon, we left the dock and sailed up coast to the beach where unloading could take place”.

June 18, 1944 (Tea time): They “disembarked” from the damaged ship at the beach. They were provided with cigarettes, chocolate, biscuits, newspapers, and a good meal.

June 18, 1944 (4-5 hours): They “hung about the beach for 4 or 5 hours watching ships loading and unloading and landing craft disgorging long lines of wounded”.

June 19, 1944 (~Midnight - early hours of June 18th/19th crossing): They “embarked in another ship ourselves”. This embarkation took place around midnight on June 18th, leading to an early morning arrival in Normandy on the 19th.

Normandy Arrival & Camp Setup (June 19, 1944):

Early Morning (June 19th): After sailing “that night”, it was “just coming light when we were passing through the first French village and very strange it all seemed in the half light.”

Day (June 19th): They “arrived in our area” while it was “raining heavily” and they worked hard erecting tents, “digging in 2 ft or so”.

Tea time (June 19th): They “completed the putting up of camp”.

Major Milliken’s Death (June 20, 1944):

June 20, 1944 (Confirmed Fatalities): “The following day Maj Millikin [Milliken] and 2 other offrs were killed when a shell hit their vehicle”. Frank notes the area was “very noisy… with bombing and A.A.” and “the Germans have shelled our area with their 88 mm guns”. They were situated on a farm.

June 21 - 22, 1944 (Activities after Major Milliken’s Death):

Frank’s letter implies events continuing, but does not provide specific day-by-day actions for these two days. He mentions being on a farm and general conditions like prices for eggs and their food.

June 23, 1944:

Letter Written: Frank writes the letter home from Normandy, describing the "beautiful

hot day" and taking a bath.

@ABWorsham4 probably still scared the starving civilians , carrying rifles and 2 bullets each, half to death at the time though .

@General:

29 July 1942 the SS Seatrain Texas set sail from New York with a cargo of 250-300 Sherman tanks. Arrived Cape Town 18 days later and arrived Port Taufiq southern end of Suez Canal 2 Sept. 1942                          Â

Thank you.

One of my favorites is the E-75 Standardpanzer. Germany’s Entwicklung series was intended to have been a replacement for its existing tank designs. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entwicklung_series . The Entwicklung series tanks were intended to be simpler, easier-to-produce, more mechanically reliable versions of the tanks they replaced. The series ranged from the E-5 (5 - 10 ton light tanks and armored reconnaissance vehicles) to the E-100 (a 100 ton successor to the Maus).

The E-75 was the intended successor to the Tiger 2 (a.k.a. the King Tiger). The E-75 was significantly better armed and better armored than the Soviets’ IS-2. However, the E-series tanks were still in the prototype phase when the war ended.

I agree with you guys…the German Tiger tank i agree was the best all around tank in the war…

War creates a thousand heroes a day and almost no one ever hears about them. Vernon Buss  of Portland is a hero of the unsung variety, but he never cared about recognition or notice for his actions that day on Samar.

But Irving Saunders  did – and long ago, Buss realized that Saunders was “a stubborn man” and it was pointless to deter him.

At last, the stubbornness paid off. All Buss had to do was show up Tuesday morning at a state office building and accept the thanks of a grateful nation . . . and of a grateful Saunders.

It would not be far wrong to say that Saunders, 87, has thought about Buss, 84, almost daily since Jan. 24, 1945. He gets reminders when he looks in the mirror, when he celebrates a birthday, when he speaks of his wife, Pearl,  his children and grandchildren.

He should have died that day, at 22, but Buss saved his life. For decades, Saunders, then an aircraft ground crewman, never even knew the name of the fellow Marine who had pulled his burning body from the crashed F4-U Corsair  on the speck of an island in the Philippines.

“I wasn’t supposed to live,” Saunders said, “but the Marines had developed this new way to treat burns, and as soon as I could, I asked to go back to my unit, so I could find my rescuer.”

When Cpl. Vernon Buss, a 20-year-old aircraft mechanic, saw the Corsair explode, he raced to the burning aircraft searching for survivors. He scooped up the unconscious Saunders, carried him to an ambulance and returned to the crash site to rescue others.

Nearly a year later, when his tour ended, Buss returned to his hometown of Portland, worked seven years in a rendering plant then joined the Fire Bureau, where he spent 31 years, retired as battalion chief and even had a fire boat named after him. He and Madge  have been married 63 years; they had four children and are great-grandparents.

“I wondered what had happened to him,” Buss said of Saunders. “But there were other things to do.”

Saunders finished his service – never finding his rescuer – and went back home to Southern California. His back, arms and legs carry the scars from third-degree burns he suffered in the aircraft fire. The back brace he wears daily is another reminder.

Saunders went to veterans’ reunions with the No. 1 aim of finding his rescuer. In 1996, he went to an event wearing a T-shirt silkscreened with an image of an F4-U. A woman approached him and complimented the T-shirt; she said her husband would love to see it.

A moment later, the husband appeared and said his name was Vernon Buss. He and Saunders engaged in the veterans’ eternal guessing game: Where did you serve?

In the Pacific – check. Through Guadalcanal  – check. In the Philippines – check. . . On the island of Samar  . . . Jan. 24, 1945 . . .

Saunders had found him. He gave Buss the T-shirt.

They stayed in touch. Saunders carved a plaque from solid basswood with the Marine Corps’ emblem and presented it to Bass. But that wasn’t thanks enough.

So Saunders got stubborn. Three times, he petitioned the Marine Corps to give Buss a medal. But few witnesses were alive to corroborate events. Finally, he contacted a staff member in the office of U.S. Rep. Earl Blumenauer  because Buss lived in that House district.

After much back and forth, with Saunders pushing hard, Blumenauer’s office worked out a plan for Rep. Darrell Issa,  R-Calif., who represents Saunders, to read a commendation into the Congressional Record on July 29:

“With total disregard for his own safety, Corporal Buss rushed to the side of Staff Sergeant Irving Saunders and carried him away from the burning aircraft, the burning pools of gasoline and the random detonations of .50 caliber ammunition as it ‘cooked off’ from the Corsair’s burning ammunition supply.”

The Marine Corps in Portland and Blumenauer’s staff arranged for the ceremony in Blumenauer’s district office to present Buss with a framed copy of the Congressional Record statement.

The day before the ceremony, Saunders said he wouldn’t make it. He is 87, after all. Then, “My daughter said, ‘Dad, this is what you’ve worked for! You have to be there! I’ve already bought the plane tickets.’ So, here I am.”

Buss never wanted the attention – Madge Buss said, “Vernon is a very, very modest man” – but he didn’t deter Saunders from his quest.

"I didn’t say, ‘Go to it, pal,’ but I didn’t say, ‘Let it rest,’ " Buss said. “It was obviously very important to him.”

Saunders’s son-in-law, Derek Barton, who accompanied Saunders to Portland, said Buss “literally saved Irv twice: One, in the wreckage; two, it kept him going. He had another will to live, to continue to find this man and to recognize him.”

Shortly after 9 a.m., two Marines in dress uniforms arrived. They invited Buss and Saunders to stand before them for the reading of the Congressional Record commendation.

The veterans stood side by side. Saunders put his arm around Buss’s waist.

When it was over, Buss said, “OK, pal.” Saunders said, “OK, pal.”

After the ceremony and handshakes, Saunders plopped down on a soft couch. Buss’s daughter, Jan, sat with him.

“It was so nice of you to persevere,” she said.

“I could not give up,” Saunders replied.

“Well, now you can rest.”

“Yeah,” he said, “now I can rest.”

By Anne Saker, The Oregonian
October 20, 2009, 7:51PM

aequitas et veritas wrote:

As you can clearly read, I wrote that timeover will not response to this as a member.

You are right. And that merely reinforces my theory. After eight straight years of checking this thread, awaiting my response, he finally grew disillusioned and disappointed. So much so that he canceled his membership to this forum. :(

Now, one could reasonably ask, “Why would he have been awaiting my response for eight straight years when I haven’t even been here that long?” Well you see, on some level he sensed that I should be here, and that I’d be showing up here sooner or later. He evidently felt that “sooner” was more likely than “later,” so that I could respond to his thread. Which, let the record reflect, I did. Eventually. Better late than never, right? :)

This topic will submerge like a Tanker hit by a German Submarine.

Ah, but like a Type XXI U-boat, this topic emerged after having been submerged eight straight years! :o Maybe it will submerge again, only to surface in another eight years. :D

actually he didn’t even respond to a post…he just reprinted a post over 5 years old and didn’t comment on anything which is even more crazy.

yea that did annoy me, but in a scratch my head type of way. :-(