Invading the soviet union with lighting war continued

@david-06 As a note, Japan cannot build colonials.
@Chris_Henry How will the UK reinforce the NEI? Assuming Japan or Germany hasn’t attacked, (Which they shouldn’t) the Dutch are neutral.

@trig Good point! Sorry, I’m playing all this through in my head, and I keep thinking about how if it were me France/Belgium/Netherlands would have already been attacked before Russia. So I was thinking of it in terms of that. But yeah, in @David-06 scenario that is not the case. So my mistake on that portion of it!

When I play the Axis I try and time the Japanese invasion of the DEI to coincide with the German invasion of Western Europe.

@david-06 I’ll definitely be curious on how it pans out! I know there was a thread a while back for the V2 game about this very possibility for Moscow to fall during the Lightning War attack, and it was largely debunked as not very likely to succeed. But all games are different, I think it will depend largely on how smartly your Comintern player defends against it, and how well the Allied player exploits it!

@david-06 If it does work, a boring game for the Comintern will be afoot haha.

I know this is based on a base-game scenario, but this sounds like a fun chance to use the Partisans Expansion too! Would force the Axis to really have to defend their new territories from who knows how many Soviet partisans in the area haha.

@david-06 Definitely! That’s one I really like to play with in my games. I don’t want to derail your thread, but that one is certainly one we like to use! Makes the CCP a lot more fun as well, especially when used with the Chinese Civil War expansion too!

@david-06 True there!

@david-06 While I certainly agree on that, I also just don’t think letting one alliance build up unchecked won’t end well either!

My typical play/hope is to use my lightning war round effectively in the west to take at least all of France, though hopefully Norway, Denmark, Belgium, and the Netherlands as well.

In doing this, you wrap up mainland resistance right away, and the UK is almost assuredly in no position to make amphibious assaults against you immediately after, allowing you some time to build defenses, while focusing more manpower in the east.

Depending on how the game has gone to this point (i.e. where my troops have been placed, enemy troops are placed, peacetime income increase rolls, etc.) I will also either simultaneously attack the USSR, utilizing the Lighting War and Soviet Surprise Attack abilities, and hopefully getting to the two front line cities/factories quickly.

To me, doing this now neutralizes any big French buildup of units in France. The longer it takes to take them out, the harder and more costly it’ll be, and the more IPP’s you’ll have to sacrifice taking them out will hurt! But I think you have the larger IPP advantage at this point in having gained French IPP (and money in the bank), and now France was taken out efficiently, while also making any UK attempts much more costly with amphibious assaults instead of free movements to the mainland.

From there, it’s trying a defensive game in the west, while pushing the resources you need in the east!

@david-06 I guess when does this Italian assault happen on France? I don’t see any realm where Italy is successful against France. France out-produces Italy really soon.

Anything against France is happening after the assaults on the USSR have begun, right? I’d just be shocked to see Italy have any success!

I don’t think Germany could stay neutral either. Why wouldn’t the Allies attack them? I know I wouldn’t just sit still as the Allies in this scenario while the Axis attempted to steamroll the USSR.

I guess I’d have to see your money breakdown for what gets what to get the numbers you got. But I think when Allied wartime bonuses come into play I think it would get hard for the Axis!

@david-06 I guess I’m having a really hard time envisioning how the Axis are going to possibly be able to have the units available to do all this?

I get that defending is better. But think of this from an Allied perspective. If what you plan actually happens, and the USSR is getting steamrolled, in what world would the Allies just sit back and do nothing? They’d just lose and concede the game if they just sat there and did nothing! They’d be forced to attack, even if the odds were against them. Otherwise you might as well just pick up the board and start the game over, right?

I guess I just don’t see how France is defeated here either. There’s no way in my mind Italy can defeat them. Even if all of Italy’s starting game units were shipped to Northern Italy, France’s income levels will quickly outpace them, especially if Italy just stays neutral as you mention maybe doing! Hell, just with Germany’s invasion of Poland alone France could reach wartime income, not to mention the bonuses for the USSR being attacked, and Slovakia, Austria, Bohemia, and Chinese territories being invaded. It just won’t take long from France to outproduce Italy. Then you sprinkle in UK reinforcements there too!

We might just have fundamental differences on what we think the enemy would do here. I just don’t see a realm where in this scenario the Axis have anything near the defensive forces needed to just keep the Allies contained in France, while getting the kind of push into Russia that you’re envisioning and the forces that would also require!

I’ll really be curious to hear how this turns out for you!

@david-06 How do you figure neither one would be able to declare war? If you’re invasion of the USSR starts in 1939, there’s a strong chance both the UK and France are at wartime income by 1940. Assuming other peacetime income increases have kicked in (annexation of Bohemia, Austria, Slovakia each give +1; invasion of Poland will have both a +2D12 roll; invasion of USSR gives +5 to France and a +D12 to the UK). Unless those D12 rolls hit on snake eyes, France declares war right as the USSR is attacked in 1940, right? A bit more chance for the UK to miss, but they too have a very strong chance, especially if Japan has triggered more increases by invading China at this point.

Like I said, I just can’t picture the Axis man power being available to ignore the west like that, while maintaining a strong enough offense force against the USSR as well! But I’d be curious to see how it plays out for you!