Extended Axis and Allies rules 1999

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@thrasher1

The game was Axis And Allies 1941, and I don’t remember. I don’t think it was crazy though, due to other misunderstandings of the rules:

All sides can only attack at one place per turn.

When fighting the number of units doesn’t matter-each type of dice roll (4 or less, 3 or less, and the rest) is rolled for only once.

These two misunderstandings weren’t too bad in the small 1941 game, but was a real problem with the really big Global 1940 game, like 10 strategic bombers only rolling once.

@CrazyIvan

hang on.
Panther or Leo. Does this topic need to go to House rules or Classic ?

BAM !!!

@barnee re: testing

Since the Axis each have a starting income that is divisible by 3, originally I had the mechanics for merging theatres as a function of the Axis country either increasing their income by 2/3rds more than their starting income, or decreasing it by 1/3rd less than their starting income. (Which sort of dovetails into the “2 out of 3” rule for Victory Cities.)

This effectively worked out to:
Germany: +14/-7
Italy: +8/-4
Japan: +10/-5

Changing it to a uniform +10/-5 made the math a little bit more intuitive, but it also means the USSR doesn’t have to get beat up so much (down half their income, possibly even losing their capitol) before the US/UK are able to jump in and help.

In terms of territorial gains/losses, this typically works out like…
+10 Germany = Karelia, Ukraine, Caucasus, Persia
-5 Germany = Finland/Norway, Eastern Europe

+10 Italy = all of Africa, plus Brazil or Eastern Canada
-5 Italy = all of Africa (except for one territory), or losing Southern Europe

+10 Japan = all Chinese territories, plus India or Philippines
-5 Japan = Indochina/Burma, Manchuria

So, Italy probably has the toughest time (as one might expect) but none of these scenarios are completely out of the realm of possibility.

@Midnight_Reaper There was a group of pieces made by pewtercraft each had their rules with them for use with axis and allies from that time period of MB. not sure if the rules can be found anymore and pewtercraft has been done for a while. The ones I currently have.

Fortresses
Heavy artillery
Anti tank guns
Mechanized infintry (this is in game now)
Pt Boats
Troop Trains (versions of this are now in game)
AAA/At guns
Scorched earth ruins
Pocket battleships

Some of the ideas are good if they are tweaked a bit.

We like to use an “Arms Buildup” instead of setting up the game the same way every time. People spend 7 rounds gradually building up the forces they want before the action starts. This adds a lot of variation to the games as you have different hot spots in different areas of the map depending on how the setup went.

I totally agree.
Timeframe and time lapse between turn makes a better understanding of how units interactions in combat rounds depict in an impressionistic way WWII battles.

If people want to see a houserule set intended to simplify interactions between these units, based partly on Classic Submarine unit here is the start of the opening post. Follow the title-link:

@Baron:

THE ISSUE

According to Dedo (see quote below), and probably other players (I’m thinking about Toblerone77), many new players seem to have issues with rules about defenseless Transports, Submarines immune to aircrafts or not and the various combinations with Destroyer presence or absence.

The learning curve can be hard, particularly when special interactions which deviate from regular rules and principles of this game are involved. Since many months I tried to find different solutions to answer this issue of complex and out of usual interactions. Maybe now this can have a useful purpose.

Wanting to help new players focus more on strategy than bogging on special rules, I would like to introduce six changes to Transport, Destroyer and Submarine combat rules to simplify things.

@Baron:

@dedo:

When following the forums of 1941 and 1942.2, I counted roundabout 20 topics (that is up to 10 percent) with questions concerning submarine or transport rules in both of the forums. It seems that for new players especially these rulebook parts are difficult to understand. Wouldn’t it be appropriate to pin down these rules in general parlance and to make them sticky in the forums? Honor to the members, who has already answered the more or less countless questions concerning these topics, but in my opinion we should put an end to this and stop to reinvent the wheel by giving a clearer wording to these mechanics of the game obviously difficult to understand. What do you think?

For my part, I revised these TPs and Subs rules to make interactions simpler between Subs, Destroyers, planes and TPs for tabletop games.
Your comments make me thinks about an alternate rules set which can be provided in addition to the OOB rules. New players can use it as a simpler intermediary or introductory step.

@Der:

@toblerone77:

Many of the newer OOB rules since revised in fact do not help the game for the more casual player and stretch the game out to the point where; if you can actually find a gamer willing to give it a go, you must use HRs in many cases to get them even close to playing the game again.

I absolutely agree! I think this subject - of general simplicity in Axis And Allies - is worthy of its own thread, so I will start one.

So, following this line of thinking to help introduce new players to a less complex naval combat interaction, I suggest this changes and tweak to simplify things and improve the impressionistic WWII depiction of Submarine warfare and Anti-Sub air cover and patrol to protect Transports and Convoys.

The second post of this thread is a transcription of OOB 1942.2 rules with corresponding changes suggested in this opening post. So, you can print them and see where these changes take place in the rulebook.

LIST of SIX small changes to help make unit interactions more consistent from a beginner POV:

Transport is treated as any other surface vessel when allocating casualty: each elligible transport unit worth 1 hit and can be chosen according to owner’s choice, whether before or after a combat unit has been selected as casualty.
OPTIONAL variant: Still worth 1 hit and Transports are taken as last casualties.

One or more friendly Transport units, sharing the same SZ, get a single defense die roll value of 1 per combat round.

Submarine cannot block unescorted Transport from amphibious landing.
Submarine and Transport cannot control SZ and can ignore each other in combat or noncombat move.

Submarine cannot hit, or be hit by, another submarine.

Destroyer does not block Submarine’s Surprise Strike.

But plane does not need Destroyer presence to hit unsubmerged Submarine.

IMPACTS of these changes:

No more defenseless Transport: TP get a combat value and can be taken as casualty the same way as other units.
Taken last can be an optional variant which is nearer OOB rule.

No combat value changes for Submarines or aircrafts with/without friendly or enemy Destroyer presence.
Aircrafts act the same as Cruiser, Carrier, Battleship when making attack or defense rolls against Submarines, except Subs still cannot hit aircrafts.

Since Submarine cannot harm enemy Sub, no fleet padding can rely solely on this cheapest unit.
Destroyer remains a must against Submarine and because Destroyer can hit aircrafts.

Submarine iconic Surprise Strike full capacity is counterbalanced by Transport illegibility as casualty and Sub inability to stop amphibious assault from lonely TPs.

WARSHIPS & TRANSPORT
Legend on unit capacities:
Unit type        Cost
Combat values
Special abilities

Submarine    6 IPCs
Attack 2 first strike*
Defense 1 first strike*
Move 2
Surprise strike: *Permanent first strike Attack 2 and Defense 1 against all surface vessels only, including Destroyers.
Submerge (instead of firing in Surprise strike phase)
Stealth Move
Unsubmerged Submarine unit can be hit by planes without any Destroyer (or Anti-Sub Vessel) presence.
Cannot hit planes nor submarines.
Cannot control SZ and can be ignored by other warship and Transport units.

Destroyer    8 IPCs
Attack 2
Defense 2
Move 2
Anti-Sub Vessel: One Destroyer unit blocks all Submarine’s Submerge and Stealth move.
Does not block Submarine’s Surprise Strike.

Transport    7 IPCs
Attack 0
Defense 1* per TPs group
Hit value: 1 Worth 1 hit and can be chosen as casualty anytime, same as warships.
Move 2
*Special Convoy Escort Defense: One single defense @1, each combat round for all friendly transports sharing SZ.
Cannot control SZ and can be ignored by other warship units.
Non-escorted Transport can make amphibious landing in Submarines infested SZ, (same rule as OOB first edition)
so Transport can ignore Submarine during Combat and Non-Combat phases, same as warships.

OPTIONAL Variant: Taken as last casualty, once all other illegible units has been chosen as casualty.

QUESTIONS:

Question 1: Do you believe that such units values can be simpler (less exemptional rules) and be used instead of OOB rules to make some baby steps toward a full OOB rules implementation?

Question 2: Is it still somewhat balanced in itself?

Question 3: Do you think that this 1 hit Transport with a small combat value is an easier rule to grasp for beginner?

Question 4: Do you think these six changes really improve WWII depiction of Submarine warfare and Anti-Sub air patrol to protect Transports and Convoys?