L21 #2 trulpen (X+4) vs Pejon_88 (A) P2V

@pejon_88 It doesn’t change my conclusion.

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: British round 6

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: WW2 Path to Victory, version: 6.1.0

Game History

Round: 6

    Combat Move - British
        1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to 115 Sea Zone
        4 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Leningrad to 115 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Shan State to Malaya
              UK_Pacific take Malaya from Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Shan State to Siam
              UK_Pacific take Siam from Japanese
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Shan State to French Indo China
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Burma to Yunnan
        10 infantry moved from Shan State to Yunnan
        1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Anglo-Egyptian Sudan to French Central Africa
        1 infantry moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
              British take Tobruk from Italians
        2 infantry moved from Egypt to 83 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 101 Sea Zone to Greece
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 83 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 101 Sea Zone to Cyprus
        1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 83 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 100 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Alexandria to 100 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 100 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 101 Sea Zone to Crete
        1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 83 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 2 fighters, 3 submarines and 2 transports moved from 113 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

@trulpen I removed one fighter from the battle. Scramble?

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: British round 6

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: WW2 Path to Victory, version: 6.1.0

Game History

Round: 6

    Combat Move - British
        1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from United Kingdom to 115 Sea Zone
        4 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Leningrad to 115 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Shan State to Malaya
              UK_Pacific take Malaya from Japanese
        1 infantry moved from Shan State to Siam
              UK_Pacific take Siam from Japanese
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Shan State to French Indo China
        1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Burma to Yunnan
        10 infantry moved from Shan State to Yunnan
        1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Anglo-Egyptian Sudan to French Central Africa
        1 infantry moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
              British take Tobruk from Italians
        2 infantry moved from Egypt to 83 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 101 Sea Zone to Greece
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 83 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 101 Sea Zone to Cyprus
        1 infantry moved from Trans-Jordan to 83 Sea Zone
        1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 83 Sea Zone to 100 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Alexandria to 100 Sea Zone
        2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 100 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 101 Sea Zone to Crete
        1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 83 Sea Zone to 101 Sea Zone
        1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 2 fighters, 3 submarines and 2 transports moved from 113 Sea Zone to 115 Sea Zone

    Combat - British
        Germans scrambles 3 units out of Western Germany to defend against the attack in 115 Sea Zone
        Battle in Greece
        Battle in Crete
        Battle in 115 Sea Zone
            British attack with 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 8 fighters, 3 submarines, 2 tactical_bombers and 2 transports
            Germans defend with 3 carriers, 1 destroyer, 6 fighters, 4 submarines and 3 tactical_bombers
                British roll dice for 3 submarines in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 bomber, 1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 3 destroyers, 8 fighters, 2 tactical_bombers and 2 transports in 115 Sea Zone, round 2 : 6/15 hits, 7,33 expected hits

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

British regular : -2,33

Savegame

6 hits. Casualties?

@trulpen Så. Concede.

@pejon_88 utterly shameful gamesmanship and hypocrisy on trulpens part.

If it hadnt been for one battle in china (that obviously had no impact on these events) then pejon would have been able to do whatever within the bounds of the rules. .

Only the strictest no edit policy (which by necessity the rules must advocate) would support the way things played out. This interpretation of the rules would essentially qualify trulpens edit policy as the strictest I have ever seen on this forum - hence the hypocrisy, since in any other situation or if the situation was reversed trulpen would ask for and complain for the same thing.

Particularly considering how related the ‘bug’ directly relates to the situation.

Basically, trulpen is advertising that he expects others to play with a loose edit policy but they should know that given the opportunity for trulpen to exploit the rules to give himself a game advantage he wont play with the same rule policy.

Absolutely ridiculous and shameful but within the league rules.

@trulpen

That you would equate a europe US NCM with redoing the german turn speaks volumes.

Again, there are almost no people on the site that would object to US NCM prior to UK turn (including yourself except in this situation).

The scramble question has nothing to do with anything and simply a lame excuse. The rules allow Pejon to completely rework his UK turn in the case of an illegal move - regardless of the scramble question.

The reason pejon was denied by gamer and company was simply because he made a US NCM edit and by rule all edits have to be approved (including changing his mind about the edit).

just read through what I could., as a neutral third-party observer.

I see a lot of edits to US units in the Atlantic prior to or during the UK turn, as long as UK combat hasn’t taken place in a way where the outcome of combat might influence decisions. I do it, and I allow it.

For what it’s worth, if I were in that situation, I would allow a redo of the combat move and/or the edit of the US fighter.

@trulpen sounds good, never had anything to discuss with you.

@ksmckay is this true?

Because in that case I choose to re-do my UK turn and post without the US fig edit (which was done on the UK turn).

@pejon_88 yes and no. the ncm edit makes things tricky.

You arent allowed to make an illegal move. the rules allow for you to correct your turn in the event of an illegal move. so you can certainly redo the uk turn completely.

Then its a matter of interpretation regarding how the NCM edit was requested/allowed/processed. I think the question to gamer and company was posed in the most complicated way possible.

Techically you never asked for permission to conduct the US NCM edit in the first place. the chinese turn was the last legally posted turn. So i dont know how the mods can then say that the US NCM was a legal edit but not making it was an illegal edit.

But again i think the way the question was posed was as complicated as possible.

I would have asked the question in this way.

Pejon proposed an illegal set of combat moves for UK6. Before any dice were rolled is he allowed to correct his UK turn to correct for the illegal move? To me the answer to this is a no brainer, yes.

Second question, during the illegal move he made a unrequested US NCM edit. Does simply making this unrequested US NCM edit and posting it make it a legally acceptable edit. that trulpen is allowed to accept but then reject undoing the edit.

• I think thats a trickier question to answer. Edits are always something that have to be agreed on, no way for the rules to allow for legal edits.

to me the US NCM edit was part of an illegal turn post. I dont see how anyone could make the case that part of the illegal turn post is binding. They happened at the same time and were directly related.

But again since edits are something that have to be completely agreed upon by opponent not sure if the rules can really help you.

You arent allowed to make an illegal move. the rules allow for you to correct your turn in the event of an illegal move. so you can certainly redo the uk turn completely.

I guess there is actually no stated guidance in the rule for what happens when there is an illegal move. I dont see any argument for anything other than above though. Im sure any moderator would agree.

@ksmckay Thanks for stepping in and engaging in the matter.

I had hoped that me proving that the game should not allow the move (except that due to the edit, the game still didn’t recognize this) would make the case quite clear. Like I mentioned way back, that was the only supporting evidence I could really rely on since everything else is a gentlemen’s agreement in regards to edit policies between players etc.

With any other player I don’t know well or haven’t played much I would definitely go with what their edit policy is, but since I know trulpen and we have played countless of games tabletop as well as a handful of games here I was simply amazed I wasn’t allowed the edit due to what has been allowed previously. One of my more clear examples were when I allowed him to disregard the CM phase after dice were rolled since his air would be exposed when landing.

I am very disappointed that he would let competitiveness go before fair play and whatever arguments he may have it is quite clear to me that he either consciously or more probable unconsciously let competitiveness overcome fair play.