L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB

oysteilo

Sorry, coming up tomorrow

AndrewAAGamer

No worries. Take your time.

oysteilo

TripleA Turn Summary: Americans round 3

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 carrier, 3 fighters and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Western United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Western United States

    Combat Move - Americans
        Trigger Americans Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Americans
        1 fighter moved from Guam to 36 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans
        Battle in 36 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 1 fighter
            Japanese defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 36 Sea Zone
            Americans win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to Yunnan
        1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 10 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        3 fighters moved from Hawaiian Islands to 54 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 battleship, 3 carriers, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 4 infantry, 2 submarines, 1 tactical_bomber and 3 transports moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        4 infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
        1 armour and 1 artillery moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
        1 mech_infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 86 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from 86 Sea Zone to Brazil
              Americans take Brazil from Neutral_Allies
        1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
        3 fighters moved from Eastern United States to Gibraltar
        1 bomber moved from Eastern United States to Gibraltar

    Place Units - Americans
        2 fighters placed in Eastern United States
        1 carrier and 1 submarine placed in 10 Sea Zone
        1 fighter placed in Western United States

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 52 PUs; end with 53 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 63 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

oysteilo

TripleA Turn Summary: Chinese round 3

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Artillery Supplies: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Open
        Chinese buy 3 artilleries; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
              Chinese take Kwangsi from Japanese
        2 infantry moved from Yunnan to Hunan
        3 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kweichow
        1 fighter moved from Burma to Hunan

    Combat - Chinese
        Battle in Kweichow
            Chinese attack with 3 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 3 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 0,50 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kweichow
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 4 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 5 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 6 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 7 : 1/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 7 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Kweichow
            Chinese win, taking Kweichow from Japanese with 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
        Battle in Hunan
            Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Hunan, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hunan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Hunan
            Chinese win, taking Hunan from Japanese with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Chinese
        1 fighter moved from Hunan to Yunnan

    Place Units - Chinese
        3 artilleries placed in Kweichow
        Chinese undo move 1.
        3 artilleries placed in Yunnan

    Turn Complete - Chinese
        Chinese collect 7 PUs; end with 8 PUs
        Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 14 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -1,00
Japanese regular : -1,33

Savegame

oysteilo

TripleA Turn Summary: UK_Pacific round 3

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 1 carrier, 3 fighters and 1 submarine; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: has removed 1 factory_minor owned by Americans in Western United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Eastern: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Eastern United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Central: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Central United States
        Trigger Americans War Production Western: Americans has 1 factory_major placed in Western United States

    Combat Move - Americans
        Trigger Americans Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Americans
        1 fighter moved from Guam to 36 Sea Zone

    Combat - Americans
        Battle in 36 Sea Zone
            Americans attack with 1 fighter
            Japanese defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 36 Sea Zone
            Americans win with 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport

    Non Combat Move - Americans
        1 fighter moved from 36 Sea Zone to Yunnan
        1 destroyer moved from 26 Sea Zone to 10 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 10 Sea Zone to 26 Sea Zone
        3 fighters moved from Hawaiian Islands to 54 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 artillery and 4 infantry moved from Hawaiian Islands to 26 Sea Zone
        1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 battleship, 3 carriers, 2 cruisers, 2 destroyers, 1 fighter, 4 infantry, 2 submarines, 1 tactical_bomber and 3 transports moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        4 infantry moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
        1 armour and 1 artillery moved from 54 Sea Zone to Queensland
        1 mech_infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 86 Sea Zone
        1 mech_infantry moved from 86 Sea Zone to Brazil
              Americans take Brazil from Neutral_Allies
        1 carrier, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Morocco
        3 fighters moved from Eastern United States to Gibraltar
        1 bomber moved from Eastern United States to Gibraltar

    Place Units - Americans
        2 fighters placed in Eastern United States
        1 carrier and 1 submarine placed in 10 Sea Zone
        1 fighter placed in Western United States

    Turn Complete - Americans
        Americans collect 52 PUs; end with 53 PUs
        Objective Americans 1 Homeland: Americans met a national objective for an additional 10 PUs; end with 63 PUs
        Objective Americans 3 Defense Obligations: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 68 PUs
        Objective Americans 2 Outer Territories: Americans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 73 PUs

    Purchase Units - Chinese
        Trigger Chinese Artillery Supplies: Chinese has their production frontier changed to: productionChinese_Burma_Road_Open
        Chinese buy 3 artilleries; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Chinese
        1 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kwangsi
              Chinese take Kwangsi from Japanese
        2 infantry moved from Yunnan to Hunan
        3 infantry moved from Yunnan to Kweichow
        1 fighter moved from Burma to Hunan

    Combat - Chinese
        Battle in Kweichow
            Chinese attack with 3 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 3 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 0,50 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Chinese lost in Kweichow
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 4 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 5 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 5 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 6 : 0/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 6 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Chinese roll dice for 2 infantry in Kweichow, round 7 : 1/2 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Kweichow, round 7 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Kweichow
            Chinese win, taking Kweichow from Japanese with 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Chinese: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry
        Battle in Hunan
            Chinese attack with 1 fighter and 2 infantry
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                Chinese roll dice for 1 fighter and 2 infantry in Hunan, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 0,83 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Hunan, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese lost in Hunan
            Chinese win, taking Hunan from Japanese with 1 fighter and 2 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Chinese
        1 fighter moved from Hunan to Yunnan

    Place Units - Chinese
        3 artilleries placed in Kweichow
        Chinese undo move 1.
        3 artilleries placed in Yunnan

    Turn Complete - Chinese
        Chinese collect 7 PUs; end with 8 PUs
        Objective Chinese 1 Burma Road: Chinese met a national objective for an additional 6 PUs; end with 14 PUs

    Purchase Units - British
        British buy 1 bomber, 3 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Purchase Units - UK_Pacific
        UK_Pacific buy 1 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - British
        1 bomber and 1 fighter moved from United Kingdom to 125 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 123 Sea Zone to 125 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from Alexandria to Tobruk
              British take Tobruk from Italians
        1 armour moved from Egypt to Ethiopia
              British take Ethiopia from Italians
        1 mech_infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Italian Somaliland
        1 transport moved from 76 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to 81 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 76 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 76 Sea Zone to Italian Somaliland
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Egypt to Italian Somaliland
        1 infantry moved from Burma to Shan State
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Burma to Shan State

    Combat - British
        Battle in Italian Somaliland
            British attack with 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Italians defend with 1 artillery and 2 infantry
                British roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 fighter, 1 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Italian Somaliland, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2,00 expected hits
                Italians roll dice for 1 artillery and 2 infantry in Italian Somaliland, round 2 : 3/3 hits, 1,00 expected hits
                1 mech_infantry owned by the British, 1 artillery owned by the British, 2 infantry owned by the Italians and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Italian Somaliland
            1 tactical_bomber owned by the British and 1 fighter owned by the British retreated
            Italians win with 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is -5
            Casualties for British: 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            Casualties for Italians: 2 infantry
        Battle in 125 Sea Zone
            British attack with 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter; Russians loiter and taunt
            Germans defend with 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
                British roll dice for 1 bomber, 1 destroyer and 1 fighter in 125 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1,50 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 125 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,17 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 cruiser in 125 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,50 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the British and 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 125 Sea Zone
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 fighter in 125 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 1,17 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 cruiser in 125 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/1 hits, 0,50 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 bomber and 1 fighter in 125 Sea Zone, round 4 : 1/2 hits, 1,17 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 cruiser in 125 Sea Zone, round 4 : 0/1 hits, 0,50 expected hits
                1 cruiser owned by the Germans lost in 125 Sea Zone
            British win with 1 bomber and 1 fighter remaining. Battle score for attacker is 10
            Casualties for British: 1 destroyer
            Casualties for Germans: 1 cruiser and 1 submarine
        Battle in Shan State
            British attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Japanese defend with 1 infantry
                British roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Shan State, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                Japanese roll dice for 1 infantry in Shan State, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 1 infantry owned by the British lost in Shan State
            British win with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for British: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - British
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Shan State to Yunnan
        1 artillery and 3 infantry moved from Burma to Yunnan
        1 aaGun moved from Burma to Yunnan
        1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 5 infantry moved from Burma to India
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Italian Somaliland to Kenya
        1 artillery moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to Ethiopia
        2 infantry moved from Belgian Congo to Kenya
        1 transport moved from 76 Sea Zone to 81 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Anglo Egyptian Sudan to 81 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 81 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
        3 infantry moved from Egypt to Trans-Jordan
        1 artillery moved from 98 Sea Zone to Trans-Jordan
        1 infantry moved from 98 Sea Zone to Trans-Jordan
        3 infantry moved from Persia to Northwest Persia
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Iraq to Northwest Persia
        2 fighters moved from Malta to 98 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 93 Sea Zone
        1 bomber moved from 125 Sea Zone to Scotland
        1 fighter moved from 125 Sea Zone to Scotland
        1 mech_infantry moved from United Kingdom to Eire
              British take Eire from Neutral_Allies
        4 aaGuns and 6 infantry moved from United Kingdom to Scotland
        1 carrier and 2 fighters moved from 92 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
        2 fighters moved from 98 Sea Zone to Iraq
        3 fighters moved from Gibraltar to Egypt
        1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 106 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 91 Sea Zone to 105 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser and 1 destroyer moved from 91 Sea Zone to 92 Sea Zone
        1 battleship and 1 cruiser moved from 76 Sea Zone to 98 Sea Zone
        1 destroyer moved from 76 Sea Zone to 77 Sea Zone

    Place Units - British
        3 infantry placed in Iraq
        1 bomber and 1 mech_infantry placed in Egypt
        1 transport placed in 106 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - British
        British collect 33 PUs; end with 33 PUs

    Place Units - UK_Pacific
        1 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys placed in India

    Turn Complete - UK_Pacific
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 3
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 37 Sea Zone. Rolls: 4,5,3,3
        UK_Pacific collect 6 PUs (3 lost to blockades); end with 6 PUs
        Some Units in India change ownership: 1 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Chinese regular : -1,00
Italians regular : 2,00
Japanese regular : -0,67
Germans regular : -0,67
British regular : -2,17

Savegame

AndrewAAGamer

For future reference you should have asked for OOL in the UK SZ125 battle. I understand wanting to finish off the combat and finish your Turn, we are all impatient and want to get it done, the problem with that is by doing so you give your Opponent an advantage.

Since you only got one hit I had the choice of taking the sub or the cruiser. Since you continued you are giving me a free look at the dice. Because I can legitimately ask you to redo the battle from the second round of combat on since you did not ask.

So let’s look at it from the defender’s viewpoint. One hit… what do I do? If I take the sub I am guaranteeing that I lose the sub and I cannot remove the Russian NO. But I am increasing my chances of a hit on the second round from 16.66% to 50% since I know my cruiser survives the first round of combat. So if I want to kill as many UK units in this single combat as possible it makes sense to take the sub.

If I take the cruiser and I get a hit then unless the British take a plane my sub survives which denies the Russian their NO. If I get a hit and the British lose a plane to keep the destroyer to kill my sub I am most likely not going to kill anymore British units but I will be able to kill the UK destroyer with an Italian plane which is good. So if I want to try and deny the Russians their NO and I want a chance to kill as many units as possible overall, even if I lose Italian units, then I am going to take the cruiser as the casualty.

Since the odds of getting a hit on Round 1 are more likely than not, 58.2% of a hit versus 41.8% of a miss, and I really want to deny the Russian their NO; it makes sense to take a hit on the cruiser but I am still taking a chance because I do not know what is going to happen actually.

However, in this case you rolled for me. I now know that I got a hit and for you to be able to continue you have to take a plane as a loss and that is really good for me. So now I say “Hey you needed to give me an OOL opportunity so please redo that combat starting from round 2 on.” To make matters worse the battle continued and you gave me the opportunity to get further hits for free. If on round 2 or 3 the cruiser had hit and I killed another unit I can say to myself “Hmm, I would have taken the cruiser but since I got two hits I will let the battle stand.” But in this case since I know I did not get any more hits I don’t want the battle to stand and I want to take the cruiser forcing you to either let my sub live by taking the destroyer or losing a plane and giving me another shot with my sub for a hit. I am ahead either way because you continued.

In essence, you are giving me a huge advantage by not asking for OOL and frankly you do not want to do that.

As I said this is for future reference only. I am not going to make you redo the battle from round 2 on since this is a just for fun game. I assure you if this was a tournament game I would make you redo it. You get a free lesson out of this one. :)

AndrewAAGamer

TripleA Turn Summary: Italians round 3

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Italians
        Italians buy 4 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Politics - Italians
        Italians takes Political Action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese
            Italians succeeds on action: Political Action Italians To War With Chinese: Changing Relationship for Italians and Chinese from Neutrality to War

    Combat Move - Italians
        3 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Bulgaria to Greece
        1 bomber and 2 fighters moved from Southern Italy to Greece
        1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Libya to Tobruk
        1 artillery moved from Italian Somaliland to Ethiopia

    Combat - Italians
        Battle in Ethiopia
            Italians attack with 1 artillery
            British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery
                Italians roll dice for 1 artillery in Ethiopia, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 armour and 1 artillery in Ethiopia, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.83 expected hits
                1 artillery owned by the Italians lost in Ethiopia
            British win with 1 armour and 1 artillery remaining. Battle score for attacker is -4
            Casualties for Italians: 1 artillery
        Battle in Tobruk
            Italians attack with 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            British defend with 1 infantry
                Italians roll dice for 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Tobruk, round 2 : 1/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 infantry in Tobruk, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the British and 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Tobruk
            Italians win, taking Tobruk from British with 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Italians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for British: 1 infantry
        Battle in Greece
            Italians attack with 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 4 infantry
            Neutral_Allies defend with 4 infantry
                Italians roll dice for 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 4 infantry in Greece, round 2 : 3/10 hits, 3.83 expected hits
                Neutral_Allies roll dice for 4 infantry in Greece, round 2 : 3/4 hits, 1.33 expected hits
                3 infantry owned by the Neutral_Allies and 3 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Greece
                Italians roll dice for 3 artilleries, 1 bomber, 2 fighters and 1 infantry in Greece, round 3 : 3/7 hits, 3.00 expected hits
                Neutral_Allies roll dice for 1 infantry in Greece, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Neutral_Allies and 1 infantry owned by the Italians lost in Greece
            Italians win, taking Greece from Neutral_Allies with 3 artilleries, 1 bomber and 2 fighters remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Italians: 4 infantry
            Casualties for Neutral_Allies: 4 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Italians
        2 fighters moved from Greece to Southern Italy
        1 aaGun moved from Bulgaria to Greece
        1 bomber moved from Greece to Southern Italy
        2 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Bessarabia
        2 mech_infantrys moved from Slovakia Hungary to Bessarabia
        1 aaGun and 4 infantry moved from France to Normandy Bordeaux
        2 infantry moved from Northern Italy to Western Germany
        1 aaGun moved from Northern Italy to Southern Italy

    Place Units - Italians
        3 infantry placed in Southern Italy
        1 infantry placed in Northern Italy

    Turn Complete - Italians
        Total Cost from Convoy Blockades: 2
            Rolling for Convoy Blockade Damage in 97 Sea Zone. Rolls: 5,2
        Italians collect 12 PUs (2 lost to blockades); end with 13 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Italians regular : -1.50
Neutral_Allies regular : 2.33
British regular : 0.83

Savegame

ksmckay

@AndrewAAGamer said in L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB:

However, in this case you rolled for me. I now know that I got a hit and for you to be able to continue you have to take a plane as a loss and that is really good for me. So now I say “Hey you needed to give me an OOL opportunity so please redo that combat starting from round 2 on.”

all fair and valid points, except you would never be allowed to do that (continue from round 2). You could either redo the whole battle or redo the whole round by rules.

AndrewAAGamer

@ksmckay said in L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB:

all fair and valid points, except you would never be allowed to do that (continue from round 2). You could either redo the whole battle or redo the whole round by rules.

Thank you @ksmckay ! At AAMC our rules were that all dice rolls stand from the point of the error/assumption and before same and only the dice after the error/assumption had to be rerolled. Our gaming group uses those same rules so I am used to them.

However based on your comment I double checked the rules here and you are absolutely correct! (Emphasis added by me.)

8 - Allowed Assumptions during gameplay - The purpose of assumptions is to reduce the number of game stoppages for opponent decisions (scrambling, casualty choice, intercepting, submerging, kamikazes). Because you are assuming a decision for your opponent, the opponent must always be given the benefit of the doubt, and moderators will always decide in this manner.
8a - Scrambling/intercept/submerge/kamikaze assumptions - When you make an assumption, you are accepting the risk that your opponent will disagree after seeing your turn. If your opponent takes issue with an assumption, you should come to an agreement about how to handle it. If you don’t agree, then the defender can require that the entire combat phase be re-rolled from the beginning. Or, you may seek a moderator ruling.

So it is not as bad here as where I played before but it is still bad because I get to see the final result. I can go “Well, I only got one hit and so I think I will have him redo the battle.” Or “WOW I got three hits - cool”. Either way you are putting yourself at a disadvantage by not waiting so I would suggest waiting.

AndrewAAGamer

@ksmckay said in L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB:

redo the whole round by rules.

Wait I just caught this. Are you saying just because I didn’t wait in one battle that my Opponent could have me reroll the entire Combat Phase again? So, as an example, I have 6 battles and in one I make an assumption and continue and every else I have great dice so my Opponent can ask me to reroll all the battles? If so that means you should never make an assumption as that is mighty dang powerful.

ksmckay

@AndrewAAGamer said in L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB:

@ksmckay said in L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB:

redo the whole round by rules.

Wait I just caught this. Are you saying just because I didn’t wait in one battle that my Opponent could have me reroll the entire Combat Phase again? So, as an example, I have 6 battles and in one I make an assumption and continue and every else I have great dice so my Opponent can ask me to reroll all the battles? If so that means you should never make an assumption as that is mighty dang powerful.

yeah thats what the rules say. I have never seen anyone request the entire round be rerolled but I suppose it would be within the rules. thats what the bolded part in 8a says.

Stiff penalty for assumption, moderator might be able to rule with some discretion in some extreme example but still. Best to establish some general behavior at beginning of games

oysteilo

If you accept my selection in 125 its cool! I realize now that it could make a difference. And i will be more carefull in the future with respect to selection.

My goal waa to clear the zone and with that in mind i felt i gave you the best option!

ksmckay

@oysteilo yeah, i think this was definitely one that is 50/50 or maybe 40/60. you didnt come in with overwhelming force by any means and so saving the sub or at least forcing an air casualty is a definite possibility. Probably not likely but far from obvious. But i hate waiting too…

oysteilo

I have 3 units at combined power of 9 vs 2 units at 4. It does not qualify as “overhaling”, but describing it as 50:50 isnt exactly right either…

With that said, i should have asked for selection. I understand that his goal is to deny the objective. And his best option of doing that is to keep the sub.

After a 1:1 result in round 1 i guess heis 1/24 to survive with the sub and 1/72 to survive with the cruiser.

Both are fairly bad odds, but he has the right to choose for himself.

I am happy to roll a one for the sub and s 2 for the destroyer and a 4 for the bomber.

Thats up to Andrew

ksmckay

good chance you get 1 hit and a decent chance he gets 1 hit. if he loses the cruiser first, then you would have to lose an air unit. or if he gets lucky and his sub happens to hit (1/6) you have to lose the dd. and if you decide to save your dd then its sitting in 125 for him to take out next turn.

your numbers make no sense.

ksmckay

after seeing that you only got one hit, he as at minimum a 16% chance of having a unit survive at the end of the battle if he loses the cruiser first. if he loses the sub first, the odds go down to ~3%. So losing the cruiser first is 5 times more likely to result in units at the end of the battle.

AndrewAAGamer

@ksmckay said in L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB:

yeah, i think this was definitely one that is 50/50 or maybe 40/60.

What @ksmckay is saying that it is a 50/50 or 40/60 choice as to what unit to take first, not the end results of the battle. If you had asked I probably would have taken the cruiser for the reasons ksmckay already pointed out.

The most likely result was I was going to get at least one hit on defense on round 1
It gives me the best chance of survival with at least one unit
It gives me the best chance of negating the Russian NO which was my only real goal
I can always kill a remaining DD with the Italians

However, as I said I am okay with the battle as is. I only wanted to point it out as a learning experience for you and it turned out to be a learning experience for me as I did not understand the rules here. So AWESOME!

oysteilo

So…… Just to make the statistics clear (at least from my perspective. I can be wrong of course, but don’t think I am). So, we assume both sides get one hit. Andrew hits with the cruiser so I can select any unit as a casualty. My goal is to clear the zone for the Soviet objective. In my book there are two options:

Option 1. Cruiser is down, and I must lose the fighter.

In this case the sub must hit, and the destroyer and the bomber must miss. Any other result and the Soviet objective is cleared. The odds for this are 1/6 x 2/3 x 1/3 = 1/27 or about 3,7%. TUV for attacker is -6

Option 2. Sub is down and I lose the destroyer.

In this case there will be two rounds of combat if you want to deny the Soviet objective. It means the cruiser must kill the fighter and the bomber AND remain itself. The odds here are 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/12 for round 1 and in addition it is 1/2 x 1/3 = 1/6 in round 2. In total this is 1/12 x 1/6 = 1/72 or 1,4 %. TUV for attacker is – 24

If you want to have a shot at denying the Soviet objective option 1 is about 2.5 times better than option 2, but this is still an unlikely result. If you want to cause maximum damage on defense option 2 is the way to go as it is 4 times better. I did not think this through good enough while doing the battle and I ask for apology for that. I think Andrew has accepted the result and I thank him for pointing this out. I should have asked for selection here, no doubt!

As I am the attacker, I can dictate the terms above and I don’t understand how @ksmckay estimates that losing the cruiser is 5 times better in this situation.

Its kind of interesting that such a simple battle can create this discussion. Good contributions from Andrew and ksmckay!

oysteilo

TripleA Turn Summary: French round 3

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - ANZAC
        ANZAC buy 2 submarines and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - ANZAC
        1 destroyer moved from 54 Sea Zone to 44 Sea Zone
        1 transport moved from 41 Sea Zone to 60 Sea Zone

    Combat - ANZAC
        Battle in 44 Sea Zone
            ANZAC attack with 1 destroyer
            Japanese defend with 1 transport
                1 transport owned by the Japanese lost in 44 Sea Zone
            ANZAC win, taking 44 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7
            Casualties for Japanese: 1 transport

    Non Combat Move - ANZAC
        1 submarine moved from 63 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 cruiser moved from 26 Sea Zone to 54 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Burma to Yunnan
        2 fighters moved from India to Yunnan
        2 infantry moved from Iraq to Northwest Persia

    Place Units - ANZAC
        2 submarines and 1 transport placed in 62 Sea Zone

    Turn Complete - ANZAC
        ANZAC collect 10 PUs; end with 10 PUs
        Trigger ANZAC 1 Control Original And Malaya: ANZAC met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 15 PUs

    Combat Move - French

    Non Combat Move - French
        1 destroyer moved from 76 Sea Zone to 79 Sea Zone
        1 infantry moved from French Equatorial Africa to Anglo Egyptian Sudan
        1 infantry moved from Iraq to Syria
        1 fighter moved from Gibraltar to Syria
        3 infantry moved from Algeria to Tunisia

    Turn Complete - French

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

ksmckay

@oysteilo you are missing something or else talking about something completely irrelevant.

The decision point (your decision to select the sub vs cruiser) comes before seeing the defensive dice. So the discussion regarding the cruiser hit and subsequent odds is meaningless.

The real discussion is as the defender I see that you got one hit. So if I choose the cruiser as casualty, then I get to roll defensive dice and I have a 1/6 chance that my sub hits and you have to lose the dd since you cant take air as casualty for a sub hit and so the battle is over. Russian objective will be denied for at least 2 turns.

16% is about 5 times more than the 3% or 2% result you are debating.

Its at least 16% because even if the sub misses there are possible outcomes that you go through that also provide a way out.

All your discussions are based on knowing that the sub misses and cruiser hits which happens after the casualty choice and so has nothing to do with the discussion.

Kyle

L20 AndrewAAGamer (X) vs oysteilo (A+58) OOB

TripleA Turn Summary: Americans round 3

TripleA Turn Summary: Chinese round 3

TripleA Turn Summary: UK_Pacific round 3

TripleA Turn Summary: Italians round 3

TripleA Turn Summary: French round 3

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