Cold war Tech Tree

@crockett36

Tokyo express does not need a marine. 1 infantry on Japanese destroyers.

@armedace
Those are some pretty cool ideas, I’ve thought about incorporating marines and how to do so-your ideas seem good. I also like the idea of interceptors at 2, more realistic and makes you think about SBR more. Although I’m not so sure about reducing air bases costs and increasing their ability to scramble to nearby land-seems OP.

FEEDBACK WELCOMED

Hello everyone. I’ve been lurking here for years and wanted to reach out and get some feedback from our house rules on new tech development house rules for use on our Anniversary map. We went out to solve 2 problems, 1) the randomness of tech breakthroughs and 2) the game changing ability of certain techs. We wanted a system where you picked what tech your research with some sort of progressive path to a breakthrough. We have 20 techs that can be researched (at 1 per turn) in 4 categories, land warfare, air warfare, naval warfare and “special”.

Most of the tech breakthroughs provide advantages only in the first round of combat and we think provide some flavour to the game but I wouldn’t mind getting some more eye on this to see if anything stands out as too powerful or not worth the 4 + IPC investment.

We’ve played 3 games now with the progressive research model and it’s been fun.

I should add that while we play on the Anniversary map (neither of us have room for Global unfortunately), we use the following rules from other games or house rules.

Tanks cost 6 IPC Industry have built in AAA AAA unit from 1942.2 SBR Escorts and Interception BB has built in AAA, rolls 1 dice at 1

Last note is we wanted to increase abilities without adding new units to the game. The map just gets too crowded once you start including new units.

Would welcome any thoughts you have. Thanks in advance!!

**** New Tech Research Rules ****

To make an investment in a technology, the player spends 4 IPC to start a project, limited to starting 1 project per turn, however doesn’t announce with projects they are starting, places a country roundle on the progress tracker starting at Phase 1. Players can only have 1 ongoing project per category (Land, Air, Naval, Special). During the research phase, the player rolls 1 free dice for each research project and may purchase as many additional dice rolls as they want for each of the research projects prior to rolling (see additional dice cost below). The player needs to roll the number on the progress chart and if achieved, the country roundle is placed in the “breakthrough” box. If roll is not successful, the country roundle is moved up one and each subsequent turn achieving a ‘breakthrough’ becomes easier. If the player gets to Phase 3 without achieving a breakthrough, the roundle is moved to the DELAYED box and the technology is achieved in the research phase of the next turn. Having a tech in DELAYED does not block a new project in the same category from being started.

While the progress of each step is announced, including a breakthrough, the player does not reveal the technology breakthrough until the technology is used. For tracking purposes, keep your breakthroughs in the “secret” box until it is used then move to “revealed’.

link text

Land Warfare

Heavy Tanks, tanks attack at 4 and target select land units on a roll of 1 during the first round of combat.

Heavy Tank Destroyers, tanks defend at 4 and target select land units on a roll of 1 during the first round of combat.

Mechanized Warfare, Inf/Art/AAA paired with tank move 2, Inf/Art can blitz with tank.

Advanced Artillery, infantry paired with artillery defend at 3 during the first round of combat.

Elite Infantry, attacking infantry roll 2 dice in the first round of combat. Only 1 roll gets the attack combined arms bonus when paired with artillery.

Air Warfare

Heavy Bombers, bombers add 3 IPC damage during strategic bombing raids. Heavy bombers hit by AAA fire are removed from play AFTER they roll for bombing damage.

Escort Fighters, fighter units starting in the same territory with a bomber may move up to 6 and escort the bomber to target during strategic bombing mission

Advanced Aircraft, land based fighters attack at 4 first round of combat. Land based fighter escorts/interceptors roll at 2 during air combat round of Strategic Bombing raid. Bombers roll 2 dice in the first round of combat, picking the best result.

Jet Fighters, defending land based fighters have a hit priority aircraft and roll 2 dice during the first round of combat and roll 2 dice at 2 to hit during Strategic Bombing phase.

Advanced Radar and ATC, Industrial complex AAA rolls hit on a 2 or less during Strategic Bombing. Up to 2 land based fighters may scramble from land territory to defend in land or sea combat in adjacent land or sea zones including strategic bombing (copied from Sired Blood’s rules)

Naval Warfare

Heavy Battleship, take 3 hits to sink, roll 2 dice first round of combat including shore bombardment. Considered fully operational with 1 hit, half attack/defend/AAA with 2 hits. Battleship AAA defences roll 2 dice.

Advanced Carrier, Carriers take 2 hits to sink & can carry 3 fighters. Carrier based fighters ‘target select’ naval or air units on a roll of 1 during naval combat.

Advanced Submarines, subs attack at 3 first round of combat, each sub in excess of enemy destroyers in a naval battle may sneak attack/submerge.

Heavy Transports, transports may now carry 3 units. If 3 units are carried, 1 must be an infantry.

Naval Logistics, all naval surface combat units (Battleships, Carriers, Cruisers, Destroyers) move 3.

Special Tech

Improved Shipyards (standard rules)

Increase Factory Production, factories on territory IPC 2 or less produce 1 extra unit, factories on territory IPC 3 or more produce 2 extra units. Factories now cost 10.

War Economy, during the collect income phase, players get 1 additional IPC for each 10 IPC it has on the income tracker + results from IPC modifier roll below.

Roll 6 = 4 IPC
Roll 5 = 3 IPC
Roll 3-4 = 2 IPC
Roll 1-2 = 1 IPC

Full Mobilization, repair factory 1 IPC per 2 points of damage. At the start of the ‘Purchase Units’ phase, the player rolls 1d6. A roll of 1-4 grants 1 free infantry unit, roll of 5-6 grants 2 free infantry units. These units are placed during the ‘Mobilize New Units’ phase using standard placement rules.

Mass Production, players may purchase multiple units of the same type at a discount.

Tanks (6 IPC), purchase set of 3 tanks for 16 IPC (-2)
Artillery, purchase set of 3 artillery for 10 IPC (-2)
AAA Artillery, purchase set of 2 AAA guns for 8 IPC (-2)
Fighter, purchase 2 fighters 17, IPC (-3)
Bombers, purchase 2 bombers for 20 IPC (-4)

**** End ****

Thanks! I mostly agree with your comment about per-dice research efficiency; the only reason I didn’t include additional penalties for triple-stacking your scientists is for the sake of simplicity. If you want to play with a -3 penalty, or (even better) a -4 penalty that rounds up to a -3 penalty if you roll three 1’s, then go right ahead!

Giving each Axis nation 3 tokens and each Allied nation 2 tokens tends to give the Axis an early edge in research (they will manage their first couple of breakthroughs earlier than the Allies will), but then the Allies will start to catch up and then overtake the Axis later in the war, because the Axis scientists (on average) will be more “crowded” and will take more stacking penalties.

You could bump Radar to 14 pts. or even to 16 pts. if you really want to, but there are limited opportunities to make full use of the potential synergy. E.g., suppose Germany is using a “Dark Skies” approach to ward off Allied fleets with its enormous Nazi bomber squadrons. Britain might want both Radar and Anti-Aircraft Cruisers to help protect its fleet. Russia, on the other hand, only needs Radar – they’re not going to build any cruisers. Similarly, Russia doesn’t have much use for Jet Fighters, since if it’s suffering from a strategic bombing campaign, it won’t be able to afford much in the way of extra fighters. There’s also the concern that “Heavy Bombers” has always been an overpowered technology in every version of Axis & Allies that had tech. I tried to err in the opposite direction by making the anti-aircraft techs roughly as powerful as the aircraft-enhancement techs!

There is an “Improved Artillery” tech in some of the OOB versions of Axis & Allies, and I’ve never seen anyone buy it, except maybe Russia, who really does have to count every dollar and might not be able to afford enough artillery to fully power its infantry stacks. It is really challenging to fully exploit the advantage of 2:1 artillery support is that it’s really hard to maintain the desired ratio. E.g. if I have a stack of 10 infantry and 5 artillery, then after one round of combat, I probably have something like 2 infantry and 5 artillery, and the extra artillery support becomes moot. It stays moot on defense, too, when those artillery try to hold the ground they just captured. But if I have a stack of 20 infantry and 5 artillery instead, then my army is hugely inefficient – even with 2:1 artillery support, I’m only generating 40 pips of punch on 25 units, so I’m going to give you multiple rounds of combat in which to score hits and wear down my army.

You get the same problem in reverse if you want to only boost the artillery’s native attack power. With a stack of, e.g., 8 infantry and 3 artillery, the tech would only give you +3 pips of punch – it’s just not very exciting. You could try attacking with a stack of all artillery, e.g., 10 artillery for $40, but that just seems weird and un-thematic.

Anyway, let me know if you try out the rules, with or without some modifications! I’d be curious to see how they work in live play. I’m defending my rules so you have the benefit of my opinions, but they’re just opinions, and ultimately the house rules are there for everyone to enjoy however they like…if you think you’ll have more fun tweaking the costs or nerfing a couple of the techs, then go with what seems fun! :-)

@toblerone77:

I’m just going to say something here. Excluding your math Baron. The whole point of this rule was to open up a way for SBR against ICs with a loose historical basis. The loose historical depiction of night bombing was to give the attacker a less risky SBR but the penalty was less risk=less reward.

Given the basic concept, I think it is viable. I liked the idea of night fighters but thought it best to drop them. That’s my POV. An SBR that drops interceptors/escort could simulate this simply.

I encourage everyone to post as they like. Personally I like the idea of simply eliminating escorts and interceptors for night raids and reducing AA fire 1@D12. Damage totals are halved. That’s just what I like.

Everyone else, carry on.

Hi Toblerone77,
I don’t know if you play 1942 second edition, but within the optional rule for SBR escort and interception it becomes viable to have such thing as StB playing a role as Night-fighter, because the odds are clearly different from G40 during the regular SBR with escort: all Fgs and StB A1 first strike, while Fg D2.

All you have to do to implement a 1942.2 Night bombing & Night Fighter HR is this when playing with escort and interception optional rule:

Day SBR damage on IC becomes 1D6+2/StB, instead of just D6.

During 1942.2 Night SBR, the damage becomes D6-1/StB (or D6+2 halved rounding down, if you prefer).

In addition, all attacking StBs and defending StB Night-fighters roll a regular A/D@1, same as G40 SBR escort and interception rule.

The AAA fire @1 in both cases, Day or Night SBRs.

These 2 things will make all the basics 1:1, StB vs Fg/StB Night Fg, balance.

Day SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage + 4.583 - casualty 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB
StB vs Fg+AAA,  damage + 4.977 - casualty 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

Night SBR:
StB vs AAA, damage +2.083 - casualty 2.0 = +.083 IPC damage/StB
StB vs StB NF+AAA, damage +3.736 - casualty 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

So, Night SBR is better when there is more than 1 Fg defending an IC, and it is still an even match for both sides (near 0 IPC) to throw 1 StB against a StB NightF.

But, if there is only 1 Fg on the IC, the Day SBR is still positively better (.2 vs .069).

In addition, there is less StB and money in 1942.2 compared to G40, so there is lesser chance that StBs presence will forbids any Night SBR.

To summarize the viable SBR tactics with this 1942.2 HR:

No Fgs on IC, go for Day-SBR 2 or more Fgs on IC, go for Night-SBR unless there is more than 1 Night-Fg for 1 StB raider. Keeping a 1 Fg + (1 StB :1 Fg) advantage for Day bombing is better. Or staying within the 1 StB and 1 Fg vs 2 Fgs is the lower limit, it is still viable around 0.00 IPC/StB run.
So, going 1:1 vs Day or Night is almost the same risks involved, but with less damage & casualty in Night SBR.

What do you think of this?

Now, Night Bombing can be viable in both games.

Here is the calculation basis for this 1942.2 Night bombing with Night Fgs House Rule:

OOB 1942.2: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 3.5 IPCs = 2.9 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 2.9 - 2 = +.9 IPC damage/StB

OOB 1942.2 SBR with D6 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+6) IPCs)/2= +3.5 IPCs) = 2.107 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs

Sum: 3.774 - 4.777 = - 1.0 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 HR damage D6+2 : 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 5.5 IPCs = 4.583 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: 4.583 - 2.0 = +2.583 IPC damage/StB

1942.2 SBR HR with D6+2 damage:
1 StB A1 first strike against 1 intercepting Fg D2

StB roll (D6)/Fg roll / AAA roll

161= 6/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg killed: 2.78%
165= 30/216 no casualty vs 1 Fg killed: 13.89%

526= 60/216 StB killed by Fg: 27.78%
541= 20/216 StB killed by AAA: 9.25%
545= 100/216 both survived: 46.3%

Results with :
60.19% * ((1+2) + (6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 3.31 IPCs
16.67% killing Fg *+10 IPC = + 1.667 IPC
39.81% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 4.777 IPCs
Sum: 4.977 - 4.777 = + 0.2 IPC damage/StB

HR for 1942 with StB as Nightfighter interceptor all A1/D1 as in G40 interception rule, damage at D6-1:

1 StB A1 vs 1 StB D1 doing interception

StB roll /Fg roll / AAA roll

116= 6/216 1 StB killed by StB NF vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.78%
151= 5/216 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 StB NF killed: 2.31%
155= 25/216 no casualty vs 1 StB NF killed: 11.57%

516= 30/216 StB killed by StB NF: 13.89%
551= 25/216 StB killed by AAA: 11.57%
555= 125/216 both survived: 57.87%

Results:
69.44% * ((0+5) IPCs)/2= + 2.5 IPCs) = 1.736 IPCs
16.67% killing StBNFg *+12 IPCs = + 2.00 IPC
30.55% StB killed *-12 IPCs = - 3.667 IPCs

Sum: 3.736 - 3.667 = + 0.069 IPCs damage/StB run

1942.2 HR damage D6-1: 1 StB doing SBR without interceptor
5/6 StB survived * 2.5 IPCs = 2.083 IPCs
1/6 StB killed *12 IPCs = -2 IPCs
Sum: +2.083 - 2 = +.083 IPC damage/StB

1942.2, damage D6+2: 1 StB & 1 Fg A1 first strike doing Day-SBR against 2 intercepting Fgs D2

StB+Fg rolls/interceptors Fgs roll/ AAA roll = odds   casualties

1/3636/361/6   = 36/7776      1 StB killed by AAA vs 2 Fgs : .5%
1/3636/365/6 = 180/7776      no casualty vs 2 Fgs : 2.3%

10/3612/361/6 = 120/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 1.5%
10/3612/365/6 = 600/7776    1 Fg  vs 1 Fg : 7.7%
10/3624/361/6=  240/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs 1 Fg : 3.1%
10/3624/365/6 = 1200/7776   no casualty vs 1 Fg : 15.4%

25/364/366/6   = 600/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by Fg vs no casualty : 7.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 Fg and 1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776  1 Fg vs no casualty : 25.7%
25/3616/361/6 = 400/7776    1 StB killed by AAA vs no casualty : 5.2%
25/3616/365/6 = 2000/7776   no casualty at all : 25.7%

Results:
Bombard on IC: 76.8% * ((1+2)+(6+2) IPCs)/2= +5.5 IPCs) = 4.224 IPCs
Killing 2 Fgs: 2.8%+20 IPCs =   + 0.56 IPC
Killing 1 Fg: 27.7% +10 IPCs =  + 2.77 IPCs
Fg killed: 33.4%-10 IPCs =        - 3.34 IPCs
StB killed: 8.8%-12 IPCs =       - 1.056 IPCs
StB & Fg killed: 14.4%*-22 IPCs = - 3.168 IPCs

Sum: 7.554 - 7.564 = - 0.01 IPCs damage/StB

There should be something to encourage Germany to go for things like rockets and super subs.  It could really use them.

Germany could get rockets when the Allies try to make a landing in Europe.  That’s around when they got them historically.

@Bardoly:

My main point though, is that giving techs for free is definitely a house rule, while allowing one’s opponent to pay 5 IPCs and you assume that the tech die that he rolls is automatically a “6” and then his Chart 1/2 die is automatically forseen, is more of a gentleman’s agreement rather than a house rule, and as such, could possibly be allowed in League play.

Whether it’s a light beer or a wheat beer or a pilsner beer, it’s still a BEER.

In other words, I am pretty sure any gentlemens agreement is still a house rule, and would technically be against any league play rules.  Sorry  :cry:

still a small AC Bomber could take out BB