Bombing by Average

Grinchveld

Industrial Bombing was a big part of the war. And I want to play this way!
But the incredibly high stakes of losing 12 or 15 IPCs to a single die roll always make me sad. (and not to realistic)

So when doing a bombing raid, for the AA gun roll 3 dice.
Each 1 scores a partial hit.
If no hits roll 3 dice for the bombing raid and divide the sum by 3 (1 left over round down, 2 remainder round up)
For each partial hit, roll 1 fewer die. (pretend the die roll was a zero) Still divide the sum by 3
[if you are allergic to math pick the middle die]
Deal damage or take money by the number given.
If the bomber took any hits pay 1/3 the bomber cost to repair it during the collect income phase.

Simplest is to force the bomber to be repaired or disbanded
OR
If unwilling to do so put the bomber upside down with 1 chip under it for each hit.
(A single hit bomber hits only on a 2 and a double hit hits only on a 1)
If 3 hits are given the entire bomber unit is lost.

Sturmhard Eisenkeil

I’ve never been a fan of strategic bombing raids, because on average it does not pay off and your bomber can do more damage elsewhere while attacking units in the long run.

The chances to inflict 12+ damage in 3 subsequent raids is 37,6%
The changes to lose your bomber to AA in this 3 raids are higher: 42%
Of course you could do more then 12 damage but in average its only 10-11 damage you would inflict.

This changes once you have access to heavy bombers, but this is rarely the case.

How about this more simplistic rule for strategic bombing raids:
On a roll of ‘1’ by the AA the bomber is repelled and returns to its origin. No damage taken by either side.
Optionally, if using the Bomber for no effect is not threadening enough:
Aditionally the bomber is marked as damaged and need to skip its next turn to repair it for free.

Imperious Leader

3.5 is average damage ( from a previous study from Baron Munchhausen and posted on this site)

General 6 Stars

This topic has to many can of worms. First off the bomber is to strong on attack. Plus why lose a bomber at that cost for 3.5 ave damage on a IC. That’s why u don’t see a lot of SBR.
Bring the attack and cost value down.
Stg b if have to keep at 12 cost
A3
D1
M6
SBR 1d6 +2
2 hits
1 Damaged
A2
D1
SBR 1d6
Move 5

If damaged by aaa gun -1 return movement
Can use next turn if damaged
Repair cost 3 icps at start of turn

Imperious Leader

Well you don’t need to do this… It will imbalance the unit compared to other units performing other duties besides SBR.

Change how a AA gun performs…

In the REAL war 10% of bombers were damaged or lost. This means you need to account for DAMAGED planes as well as LOST PLANES.

How: perhaps roll a D10. If you roll 1, then roll again and assign either a pane is destroyed, or must go back to where it came from ( damaged) and not be used that turn. The AA gun might need to be cheaper… say 3-4 IPC?

General 6 Stars

@Imperious-Leader said in Bombing by Average:

Well you don’t need to do this… It will imbalance the unit compared to other units performing other duties besides SBR.

Change how a AA gun performs…

In the REAL war 10% of bombers were damaged or lost. This means you need to account for DAMAGED planes as well as LOST PLANES.

How: perhaps roll a D10. If you roll 1, then roll again and assign either a pane is destroyed, or must go back to where it came from ( damaged) and not be used that turn. The AA gun might need to be cheaper… say 3-4 IPC?

That’s the problem. There unbalanced now.

General 6 Stars

Test what IL said. But do it with d6 dye.
This way you have a choice. I’d leave it either plane is destroyed or returns home damaged.
At start of next turn has no damage.
It’s a start

Imperious Leader

Use either D8 or D10

Imperious Leader

Both sides need a 6 space reach unit attacking at 4, since only some nations can afford a Battleship and others are mostly land powers.

General 6 Stars

@Imperious-Leader said in Bombing by Average:

Use either D8 or D10

Wouldn’t this make Germany stronger with weaker allies AA gun ? I do have d8
hit dice. Be easy for me. Guys ain’t gonna wanna roll that d8 football dye.
How’s this. Since the AA gun is used only once and then sits there it should be used also for defense on a ground attack. So keep cost the same.
AAGun
C5 D@1 up to 3 planes d6. d8 ? Before combat.
Defender picks a plane casualty or has to retreat plane. Plus now u have to decide if u want to keep AA gun or take as casualty.
After first round of combat it defends @2 against ground units. It’s like a h art or pill box etc.
If not your cup of tea then go with
AA Gun
C4 D@1. d8
C3 D@1. d10
Enough of ya this and ya that. Play test it !

Grinchveld

This post is deleted!

Grinchveld

@Imperious-Leader

Using a larger die doesn’t help. The fate is still dependent on 1 roll, you just changed the odds.
The point is to have an in between outcome, to not have all your eggs in one basket.
A larger die is just a bigger basket.

Grinchveld

@GEN-MANSTEIN

thankyou Gen-manstein.
I was trying to reflect the loss of some plans.
Although the limits on realism and play ability are difficult.
That is why I recommend only doing this for bombing to keep the rest of the game simple.

Grinchveld

@Imperious-Leader @Sturmhard-Eisenkeil

Yes 3.5 average. And on average you get 5 rolls before getting shoot down on the 6th run. (on adverage)
3.5 * 5 = 17.5 so bombing is a good idea, even when bombers cost 15 IPCs, and at 12 it is a good idea.
(do you guys calculate it differently?)

And if Bombers cannot be shoot down and repair for free Bombers become crazy good!
Their needs to be a chance of losing IPCs to balance bombers or the USA can just spam them.

General 6 Stars

I would try the 1-6 chart to get all scenarios for bomber.

Killed
No effect
A@3 plane has minor damage
SBR -1 or 2. Plane has minor damage
No effect
Return home. Plane has major damage
Start adjusting this chart

Sturmhard Eisenkeil

I would try the 1-6 chart to get all scenarios for bomber.

Repelled and damaged*

Repelled*

No effect

No effect

No effect

No effect

Damaged planes are destroyed with 1 or 2.
Damaged planes can be repaired as their action.

General 6 Stars

This post is deleted!

General 6 Stars

How can u give 2 things for 1-2 ? Or u giving player a choice ?

Sturmhard Eisenkeil

Damaged planes get killed on 1-2. If you feel desperate or lucky keep conducting SBR with damaged planes, otherwise repair them to be on the save side

General 6 Stars

Ok so your saying 3 bombers SBR. 1 AA rolls 3 dice. Get a 1,2,5. So you end up with 1 dam plane. 1 plane has to go back home. 1 plane normal with no dam.
Now what value does the dam plane have for sbring ? Or it stays the same and then if you don’t repair it on next turn if a 2 or less is rolled plane with dam is destroyed and plane being repaired can’t fly next turn ?

Bombing by Average

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