WW2 Path to Victory - Rules Discussion

@jkprince indeed 🙂

Thank you both for your interest!

I was wondering if anyone had a copy of the rules (and if separate from the rule book, the setup as well) for East & West, War in 1948? I recently purchased a copy that is complete, except for the rules and the starting setup. I can send pictures if someone wishes to confirm my purchase.

It sucks being this close and yet so far away from trying this game out.

I also posted this request in the “Home / Axis & Allies / Discussion & Older Games” section.

-Midnight_Reaper

I’m reviewing all Vichy rules available out there, as I plan to make a unique mod, because I like historical realism and simplicity, with minimized luck of dice, and some “asymmetric balance”.

Some major points I’ve posted elsewhere in the forum:

The main issue for this expansion is how to develop French neutrality, while at the same time providing a bonus to Germany. Apparently ignored by most players, in real life (IRL), Germany economically exploited Vichy, which had to richly sustain 300,000 German troops stationed in Northern France. Therefore, in the game, it only makes total sense that Germany gets the 3 IPCs from Vichy Southern France.

Another related major issue is what to do with French colonies in terms of neutrality/occupation and IPC flows. I agree that the Vichy setup should reflect what happened IRL: North Africa, Syria, and Indochina go to Vichy, while other French colonies stay Free. However, it messes up Italy’s incursions into North Africa (as IRL, Hitler denied French colonies to Italy). I’m not sure yet as to the best approach to subjecting these colonies to invasion, occupation, and who gains IPCs (other than agreeing that Japan has easy access “rights” over Vichy Indochina), and also remote units…

Germany never fought Vichy. IRL, with Operation Torch, Germany simply occupied Vichy in 1942, with no resistance whatsoever. Vichy units were disbanded. That can be also the case in the game. Just remove Vichy units.

The uncertainty surrounding local pre-battles is quite interesting (will Vichy troops welcome or resist Allies in North Africa?..). However, I’d try to minimize dice randomness that is often used to decide some outcome. IRL, Vichy troops (just like Italians) surrendered as soon as seeing enemy superiority: thus, in the game, if Allies send more land + air units than defending Vichy units, then there should be no battle but quick surrender. Or, make it highly unlikely that a battle would ensue (for example, need to roll a 1).

I’m now working on my own house rules, for an expansion (HBG lingo) that is quite realistic, fun yet simple. If anyone is interested, let me know and I’ll be happy to share my rules when ready…

phd_angel@yahoo.com

Chicago, December 2020

@knp7765:

Hey 12doze12,
Here is a little sample pic I took when I first made some of these roundels.  I was using the smaller image roundels at the time.

Those look really good in the map but they are a bit weird compared to the other nation roundels maybe because of the color

@wittmann:

Knp: I agree.

Ditto here!  I hope this really can be a fresh start this year for FMG, for sure, and I too wish I had a boatload of money I could invest.  I did make a modest little order to show my support, though, and to express tangibly that “no hard feelings” on my part.  Just remember, we can forgive a lot, but if you don’t tell us what’s going on for months at a time, we don’t know if we should even risk making orders for “in stock” items, as we might fear the company’s going out of business and can’t fulfill them.  So please, please keep us posted… And just as important, is not more so, keep in touch with Coach!  And please coordinate with him more closely in the future when you’re ready to roll out more new products… (…last I checked we were headed for a situation where we were going to have 3 different companies doing a Tiger I and none doing a Panzer IV, for instance…)

I have studied extensively the economic dynamics of the added benefit of how nations faired following conquest, and concluded that the conquering player for the most part has not increased his total economic output from either liberation or conquest, and even to a lower degree has the nation that was invaded had lost any of its war making potential as a result of enemy occupied lands.

Cases:

German invasion of the Soviet Union only caused the Soviets to mobilize to a full war economy, moving potentially targeted areas (factories and industry) out of harms way. Secondly, even after the period of 1943-45 the Soviet economy rose at a even level in spite of having recaptured most if not all of her German occupied territories.

In Germany’s case she did benefit marginally with the conquest of france, because Vichy government was forced to pay for the war but this didn’t add nearly as much as the Germans slowly moving into a full wartime economy.

In the British case the loss of Singapore, parts of Egypt or Tobruk only served to embolden the conquerer and which served to deliver only a short term psychological blow to national morale.

Japan did benefit from the conquest of the Dutch colonies and was able to sustain her war from the newfound oil imports to offset the American oil embargo effects.

The invasion and liberation of France did not afford the allies with income, nor did it cost the Germans anything but prestige, a few lost U-boat bases, and some strategic air fields… but no tangible economic benefits other than the stoppage of some foodstuffs and payments from Vichy.

I think in all these cases they represent examples of only lost or gained oil reserves, but did not effect the production of airplanes, tanks, ships, or raising of new cadres of Infantry formations. In Germanys case conquered peoples offered a few divisions worth of volunteers but the effect was marginal.

All of this points to the direction that it may be more realistic and in fact solve some of the games issues, by  doing the following:

Each nation is established with a basic starting income and this does not change, except by possible investments into the economy to grow it to full war making potential.

what does this mean?

It means that for example the Soviets, Americans and Germans had economy that took time to mature and that can be presented in the game, by setting benchmarks to illustrate its growth over each turn or following the nations victory conditions.  For example: Germany avoids Moscow and instead takes the oil fields of Baku… they would be rewarded each turn with a set value in IPC, but otherwise they maintain the original income.

Secondly, note that each nation has DIFFERENT IPC starting values… so the question would also be how do the Axis try to get more money than what they start with?

They can invest in building the economy. Say they have 45 IPC basic income, they decide to save 10 IPC and you multiply the 10 IPC to the nations growth rate ( say Germany is at 50% growth rate) , so on all future turns her new starting figure will be at 50 IPC  ( remember: this is just an example).

possible benefits:

–Nobody is gonna keep taking stuff just to collect the money
–It saves alot of time to figure out what money you have
–it will boost SBR campaigns which done seem to really be part of the game
– it will encourage submarine warfare and ENR attacks
– All these silly invasions would keep happening
– effective elimination of a game phase ( collect income), also solving that issue about double collection.

Now im sure some of you will say it will extend the game and make it longer, but if you also adopt the all Axis/ All Allies move sequence the time is a washout.

Naw i knew it was bogus… I own some of these pieces… only the fortress and planes are any good. Der Kreigspeilers used the same plane mold as pewtercraft ( actually the other war around).

This map is huge 15 square feet wow I can use my Axis and Allies Miniatures for this game sweet. I wish, I fear I will never have enough planes though  :x

These rules are added on to the rules posted in the post with the maps and country cards
While setting this game up and trying to give it a realistic twist

National Advantages

Most of the advantages posted in the revised rules will work. This list has the not so compatible ones changed.
USSR-
Russian Winter AA-R
Non Aggresion treaty AA-R
Mobile Industry AA-R
Salvage AA-R
Tank Guards regiment-Tanks in the cities of Leningrad, Stalingrad, and Moscow defend on 4’s House rule
Lend Lease AA-R

Great Britain-
Radar AA-R
Joint Strike AA-R
Common Wealth Troops– Common Wealth Industrial complex’s produce 2 free Infantry during your mobilize new units phase Does not count against build limit this includes newly built complexes. Factories in Sydney And Calcutta Are the common wealth
Mid-East Oil  Cairo, Trans Jordia, Syria, Iraq, Iran,Southern Iran, Tehran,Upper Egypt AA-R
French resistance AA-R
Flying boats- Bombers may attack subs  without destroyer present  Bomber attacks on 3 or less. House rule

USA-
Liberty ships-transports now cost 6 IPC’s House rule
Marines AA-P
Mechinized Inf. AA-R
Fast carriers AA-R
Superfortresses AA-R
Lend Lease-- US units,( other then Infantry) May be converted at a I.C. to that country. This Includes ships In a sea zone bordering a Industrail complex. Max of 4 units per turn. House rule

Germany-
U-boat Program- Subs Cost 6 IPC’s House rule
Atlantik Wall- Infantry Defend on 3’s during an Amphibious onto a grey territory house rule excludes Afrika House Rule
Wolf Packs AA-R
V-2 Rockets- Fired from AA, Range 3  fired at Industrail complexes,  Max 1 rocket attack per turn per gun, On roll of 5, or 6, V-2 misses What ever is rolled on the other die, equal amount of IPC loss. House Rule
Panzer Blitz AA-R
Fortress Europe- African spaces don’t get bonus AA-R

Japan- all AA- Revised
Tokyo Expess
Kamikaze Attacks
Lightning Assaults
Dug in Defenders
Banzai Attacks
Kaitan torpedoes-- Kamikaze subs Hit on 4’s, does not need to be next 2 red territory.

Italy- I could use some help here. This is what I was thinking, you really can’t give them a ligitamate Nat’l advantage because the majority of there equipment was crap. Add that to the even crappier training there military overall recieved, backed by their puny production rate, I say give them MORE ships at start of game. Italy did have a rather large Surface fleet, bigger then Germany’s Maybe they get another BB and transport with there fleet. This would be their Nat’l. Advantage.

Tech Tree-
1. Jet Fighters
2. Super Subs
3. Long Range Aircraft
4. Heavy Bombers-- Cost 18 IPC’s Move 6,a4,4-d1, can carry two Paratroopers-- Heavy Airtransports, Cost 7 IPC, move 4 a0-d1 May move two paratroopers or Infantry
5. Combined Bombardment
6. Heavy Tanks  Cost 8 IPC, move 2, 4-4
7. Long Range Artillery- Defending Arty gets Prilimanary bombardment. 1 die per Def. Arty need to roll 1’s to hit. Attacking Artillery that is not performing a combat move may choose to support other units attacking adjoining territories. 1 arty per attacking unit.
A roll of a 1 is a hit  This is also a prliminary bombardment
8. Mechanized Infantry-Tanks may carry 1 Inf
9. Super Carriers- can carry 3 fighters
10*. Industrial Tech. Roll a d6, 1-2 Army 3-4 Navy 5-6*  Airforce IPC reduction in costs. Army- 1 Airforce- 2 Navy- 2 *Battleships -3
11. ParaTroopers/ Air transports-  Paratroopers- Cost 4 IPC, Move 1 attack 2 Defend 2  air transport
Airtransport cost 6 IPC move 4 a0,d1 may carry 1 paratrooper or 1 Inf.
12. Radar- May fire 2 AA that defend on a 2, 2 Die. 1AA = 1 die @ 2, 2AA = 2 Die @ 2, no more then 2 AA may fire from 1 Territory.
*

Other Rules That should be included

Japan gets it’s First Strike As per pacific Rules must be used first turn
Russia Can’t Attack it’s first turn unless attacked first, or maybe Germany gets a surprise attack against only  Russia, like japans
surprise attacks
US control over China be as similar to Pacific rules as you can, this includes builds, Or china can be it’s own country with a 9 IPC Starting income China goes simultanious with US player

Neutral countries British D-day Pieces
Italy Yellow Jap Pieces Revised- Italys Tanks were crappy and small also, and at least they are not fielding Shermans
AA guns- You can Have as many AA guns as you want per territory but gain the benifit of only having one. Only 1 AA gun per territory per turn may fire. This is also true for V-2 Rockets.

If you want utilize your new trucks that came with Battle of the bulge game,
Trucks- Cost 4 IPC’s  move 3 Attack 0 Defend 0  Transport 1 Inf. + 1 Arty or 1 Inf  Can be captured not destroyed If a territory is lost that contains a truck the new owner may immiediatly use the truck as it had not moved and was his at the begining of their turn. Passengers Dismount upon contact with the enemy and defend as normal. Trucks movement ends when something dismounts. Trucks can Load move load and move again

Also this map is perfect if you don’t neccassarily want russia involved right away, kinda like Xeno games world at war.Llots of possibilities with this set up

Russia collects Half their income until  war is declared on them or the 5th turn, then they are automatically at war  Can only attack neutral territories or chimese territories intil they are at war

Now any one got an idea for National Advantage’s for Italy or maybe china?