Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

AndrewAAGamer · May 28, 2020, 2:52 AM

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Germans round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans buy 6 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Germans
        1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
        1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Norway to 110 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone
        2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
        2 bombers moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
        3 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
        1 artillery, 3 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France
        3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

AndrewAAGamer · May 28, 2020, 2:54 AM

Okay WORLD! I need to know if the sub fights in SZ 106 and if you want to scramble SZ 110.

@trulpen I figure 48 hours to get a consensus? What do you think?

Omega1759 · May 28, 2020, 3:35 AM

This will be controversial but my vote is to scramble because we can inflict 80% damage on the German Air Force and ensure that the battleship sinks. We should take 2 German fighters down for 2 UK fighters and the French fighter.

Then next turn we have a fresh fleet from 111, 109 + 1 Scottish plane + 2 new planes + 1 new destroyer taunting the Luftwaffe directly in 110. We should make sure to fill the Med with ships in 96/97 to cause further attrition next round.

Too many targets for Germany/Italy to destroy. If 110 is liquidated on next turn, the luftwaffe will still be down to 6 planes or less. If 110 is not eliminated then we have immediate pressure on the continent, enabling trading ground and picking up some income. If 110 is spared, there should still be luftwaffe attrition from sinking 97 (2 additional planes down bringing Lufwaffe to 8 planes)

The subs in 106 can wait for the Americans, they will disperse and be annoyance but this is the cost to pressure the Luftwaffe.

Sub in 106 would submerge to head to the Med/convoy as soon as possible.

Can’t see map, is one sub not on the attack?

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 7:20 AM

@Omega1759 said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Can’t see map, is one sub not on the attack?

I don’t see the map either, but the sub in z124 can’t reach anything except z109 and z111, right?

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 7:25 AM

That sure is controversial. @Omega1759! :grin:

I don’t think we have to wait 48 h for a decision, but maybe we should?

I think it’s a no-brainer.

Agree to submerge the sub in z106.

Disagree on scrambling. We want to cripple G, but don’t want to cripple the UK. With Bismarck entering the scene, scrambling won’t risk enough german air, unfortunately. It’s a risky move to scramble, with lots of potential drawbacks. Better to let Bismark survive and then knock the sucker out with a pair or more of figs along with sweet subs.

The sub in z110 of course should submerge. That was the intent in regard to an all-out attack on the channel.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 7:27 AM

Also, the french fig may seem like it’s got nothing to do most of the game, but just wait until that sweet can-opening moment…

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 7:30 AM

I’d only scramble if there were a 10 TUV-difference or more against not doing it.

Sorry guys, but I think it’s better to get this Colossus going. The decision is made. Submerge all and no scramble.

However, feel free to chip in while we wait for Andrew’s execution of battles and the turn.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 7:34 AM

If this goes too slow, I think a lot of interest will be lost. Maybe it’s just me being impatient? :grimacing: I’ll try and get a good balance though between listening in and proceeding. It’s a complex game, but waiting 2-3 days for every little decision isn’t particularly rational. Would you agree?

Omega1759 · May 28, 2020, 11:31 AM

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

I’d only scramble if there were a 10 TUV-difference or more against not doing it.

Sorry guys, but I think it’s better to get this Colossus going. The decision is made. Submerge all and no scramble.

However, feel free to chip in while we wait for Andrew’s execution of battles and the turn.

Once decided no reason to wait.

Understand the reluctance to scramble, the move considers the long game and puts lots of value in reducing options for the Luftwaffe (In hands of a good player the starting Luftwaffe is worth a lot more than IPC swing).

Another way to think about this, pretty sure Andrew doesn’t want us to scramble :) and risk attrition on the Luftwaffe.

Moves such as this (when you can afford them, let’s not be reckless) end up reducing options for the adversary. If Andrew knows that we aren’t afraid to force attritional battles and if this is against his declared style, we expand our range of options and reduce his range of options. This is a bit like playing aggressive at poker which may be slightly suboptimal/risky for this particular hand, but good in the long run. A very good Allied player once said that to win as the allies, drink a beer and play a bit looser! ;)

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 1:26 PM

I follow your line of thinking. I’m actually in favour of it, but not in this situation. If it fails and G doesn’t lose any air at all, UK will be in a terrible position. It’s simply not worth the risk. Those air can do a much better job later on, especially during UK1, than sacrificing themselves in a lucky hope.

Also, Andrew explicitly informed us that he’d be happy if we scrambled in z110. I’m confident it’s nothing as silly as reversed psychology, but the honest opinion. And I agree with that conclusion.

If UK is lucky in that scramble, however, it’d be awesome, but it’s not even 50 % chance of getting a decent result.

surfer · May 28, 2020, 12:47 PM

I vote with @trulpen. For the same reasons,
A) it was the plan before we started.
B) as the allies you should play defensive and extend the game initially for the US entry.
Unless there is a target of opportunity-taranto/tobruk.
C) the point was to save a a large portion of the home fleet. We have taken the first step there, but are still in dangerous waters. Need to regroup, and choose a better battle. Not sz110 either. I thought the point was to use this fleet to cover early us trn buys. With much less effort, the US can start invading 1+ turns earlier than a “normal” build up

Regarding timing of moves, i vote for:
24 hrs for scramble decisions,
48 for purchase + combat moves+ ideas where to NCM,
24 hrs after combat results to freshen up NCM choices due to battle results.

surfer · May 28, 2020, 12:54 PM

Also, we should believe @AndrewAAGamer comments at all times in this particular game. He has gone to alot of work to set this teaching game up ( sorry @trulpen, no disrepect intended. You are also key in this.) So his purpose is not to confuse,but instruct

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 12:55 PM

Sounds good.

May I have the benefit of making choices when there’s no choice in reality? Like with some scramble options, causalty-selections and such?

surfer · May 28, 2020, 12:56 PM

Of course, if you happen to play him in another game…all bets are off.🤔

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 1:00 PM

@surfer said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Of course, if you happen to play him in another game…all bets are off.🤔

Sorry, don’t follow. :)

surfer · May 28, 2020, 12:58 PM

@trulpen I’m good with that. 👍

surfer · May 28, 2020, 1:00 PM

@trulpen Hmm, I and thought you were a smart guy…uh oh we’re doomed🤣

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 1:03 PM

@surfer said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@trulpen Hmm, I and thought you were a smart guy…uh oh we’re doomed🤣

Haha, it’s just that English is not my native language. And my brain configuration might be a bit different than most peoples, although in this forum I’d say I’m in majority. ;) I just didn’t understand that about “another game” and “all bets are off”. Was that perchance a compliment, that you believe I’d give dear Andrew a match? :grinning:

Omega1759 · May 28, 2020, 1:26 PM

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

I follow your line of thinking. I’m actually in favour of it, but not in this situation. If it fails and G doesn’t lose any air at all, UK will be in a terrible position. It’s simply not worth the risk. Those air can do a much better job later on, especially during UK1, than sacrificing themselves in a lucky hope.

Also, Andrew explicitly informed us that he’d be happy if we scrambled in z110. I’m confident it’s nothing as silly as reversed psychology, but the honest opinion. And I agree with that conclusion.

If UK is lucky in that scramble, however, it’d be awesome, but it’s not even 50 % chance of getting a decent result.

BTW hadn’t seen his comment on the 110 scramble, certainly didn’t mean to imply reverse psychology, I simply put myself in his shoes under the path he is taking (sea lion off table, J1 DOW). Losing 2 planes under that is tolerable but the volatility around the outcome would certainly cause me to take a deep breath before the battle.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 2:02 PM

@Omega1759 said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

BTW hadn’t seen his comment on the 110 scramble, certainly didn’t mean to imply reverse psychology, I simply put myself in his shoes under the path he is taking (sea lion off table, J1 DOW). Losing 2 planes under that is tolerable but the volatility around the outcome would certainly cause me to take a deep breath before the battle.

For me, if I was in his shoes, I’d be full of anticipation. :grinning:

Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Germans round 1

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