Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 2:54 PM

Ok, dear friends, here’s my suggestion for Russia purchase:

12 inf

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 2:56 PM

Actually, this is not really under discussion, so I’ll proceed.

What I mean is, feel free to comment, discuss and provide ideas. That’s more than welcomed. But I’m firm in this choice. There’s nothing else for Russia, especially when Germany purchased 2 inf, 6 art. We’re looking at a nasty take-down of Moscow in the near future, so top defence is key.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:04 PM

Regarding NCMs, I believe it’s over-all the same, with maybe one exception. All units should pull back, from west and east. Then in R2 we’ll see how we proceed.

The south part of two inf looking out towards Iraq. I’m a keen protagonist of getting Iraq, Ethiopia, Somalialand, Tobruk and Libya with ruskijs. Objectively I know though that it’s rarely feasible. Especially against an efficient Germany bound for one goal; Moscow.

There could maybe be a small route to make this happen, and that is if the other Allies, mainly UK, are able to provide Russia with valuable figs for the defence around G5-7. Then this boosted income would be simply awesome. It’s a total of an extra 19 IPC, although it does take some time to get hold of all of it.

This one I’d really like to discuss.

Regarding R1 the issue is where to put the fast-movers and whether to keep those 2 inf put or move them upwards for the defence.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:05 PM

@AndrewAAGamer, you need to finish the german NCM. Or was it intentional?

AndrewAAGamer · May 28, 2020, 3:08 PM

TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 1

TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Germans
        Germans buy 6 artilleries and 2 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Germans
        1 submarine moved from 103 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 108 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 117 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 118 Sea Zone to 106 Sea Zone
        1 battleship moved from 113 Sea Zone to 110 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Norway to 110 Sea Zone
        1 fighter moved from Holland Belgium to 110 Sea Zone
        2 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from Western Germany to 110 Sea Zone
        2 bombers moved from Germany to 110 Sea Zone
        3 armour, 2 artilleries and 4 infantry moved from Holland Belgium to France
        1 artillery, 3 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys moved from Western Germany to France
        3 armour moved from Greater Southern Germany to France

    Combat - Germans
        Battle in 106 Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 3 submarines
            British defend with 1 destroyer, 1 submarine and 1 transport
            1 submarine owned by the British Submerged
                Germans roll dice for 3 submarines in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.00 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 destroyer and 1 transport in 106 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                1 destroyer owned by the British and 1 submarine owned by the Germans lost in 106 Sea Zone
                1 transport owned by the British lost in 106 Sea Zone
                Germans roll dice for 2 submarines in 106 Sea Zone, round 3 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits
            Germans win, taking 106 Sea Zone from Neutral with 2 submarines remaining. Battle score for attacker is 9
            Casualties for Germans: 1 submarine
            Casualties for British: 1 destroyer and 1 transport
        Battle in 110 Sea Zone
            Germans attack with 1 battleship, 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 1 submarine and 3 tactical_bombers
            British defend with 1 battleship, 1 cruiser and 1 submarine; French defend with 1 cruiser
            1 submarine owned by the British Submerged
                Germans roll dice for 1 submarine in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 battleship, 2 bombers, 4 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 8/10 hits, 6.00 expected hits
                British roll dice for 1 battleship and 2 cruisers in 110 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1.67 expected hits
                1 cruiser owned by the French, 1 cruiser owned by the British and 1 battleship owned by the British lost in 110 Sea Zone
            Germans win with 1 battleship, 2 bombers, 4 fighters, 1 submarine and 3 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 44
            Casualties for British: 1 battleship and 1 cruiser
            Casualties for French: 1 cruiser
        Battle in France
            Germans attack with 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 7 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys
            British defend with 1 armour and 1 artillery; French defend with 1 aaGun, 1 airfield, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 factory_major, 1 fighter and 6 infantry
                Germans roll dice for 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 7 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys in France, round 2 : 7/20 hits, 6.33 expected hits
                French roll dice for 1 aaGun, 2 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 fighter and 6 infantry in France, round 2 : 5/11 hits, 4.33 expected hits
                1 aaGun owned by the French, 5 infantry owned by the Germans and 6 infantry owned by the French lost in France
                Germans roll dice for 6 armour, 3 artilleries, 2 infantry and 4 mech_infantrys in France, round 3 : 7/15 hits, 5.50 expected hits
                French roll dice for 2 armour, 2 artilleries and 1 fighter in France, round 3 : 2/5 hits, 2.33 expected hits
                2 infantry owned by the Germans, 1 armour owned by the French, 1 fighter owned by the French, 1 artillery owned by the British, 1 armour owned by the British and 1 artillery owned by the French lost in France
            Germans captures 19PUs while taking French capital
            Germans converts factory_major into different units
            Germans win, taking France from French with 6 armour, 3 artilleries and 4 mech_infantrys remaining. Battle score for attacker is 32
            Casualties for Germans: 7 infantry
            Casualties for French: 1 aaGun, 1 armour, 1 artillery, 1 fighter and 6 infantry
            Casualties for British: 1 armour and 1 artillery
        Trigger Germans Conquer France: Setting switch to true for conditionAttachment_French_1_Liberation_Switch attached to French

    Non Combat Move - Germans
        2 bombers, 4 fighters and 3 tactical_bombers moved from 110 Sea Zone to Western Germany
        2 infantry moved from Slovakia Hungary to Romania
        1 armour moved from Slovakia Hungary to Western Germany
        1 armour moved from Poland to Western Germany
        3 infantry moved from Poland to Slovakia Hungary
        1 fighter moved from Slovakia Hungary to Southern Italy
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Poland to Southern Italy
        2 infantry moved from Romania to Bulgaria
              Germans take Bulgaria from Neutral_Axis
        2 artilleries and 6 infantry moved from Greater Southern Germany to Slovakia Hungary
        1 aaGun moved from Germany to Western Germany
        1 tactical_bomber moved from Germany to Western Germany
        2 aaGuns, 3 artilleries and 11 infantry moved from Germany to Slovakia Hungary
        1 transport moved from 114 Sea Zone to 113 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from Denmark to 113 Sea Zone
        2 infantry moved from 113 Sea Zone to Germany
        1 cruiser moved from 114 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
        1 submarine moved from 124 Sea Zone to 112 Sea Zone
        3 infantry moved from Norway to Finland
              Germans take Finland from Neutral_Axis

    Place Units - Germans
        6 artilleries and 2 infantry placed in Germany

    Turn Complete - Germans
        Germans collect 37 PUs; end with 56 PUs
        Trigger Germans 5 Swedish Iron Ore: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 61 PUs
        Objective Germans 1 Trade with Russia: Germans met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 66 PUs

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans : 3.17
British : -1.00
French : 0.33

Savegame

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:11 PM

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Regarding NCMs

Also, the russian “fleet”.

The sub from z127 should get into play. z111 is a good spot.

Germany has a tr in z113 and a lot of air. There’s two choices there, either stay put in z115 or block with the cr in z114 to prevent a landing in Leningrad.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:12 PM

No need to DOW on Japan yet either.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:19 PM

In OOB Germany has the sneaky opportunity of DOWing on Russia first on G3, having Italy collect either E Poland or Bessarabia or preferably both during I2 with 1-2 tanks. We don’t like this, but have to include it in the strategic evaluation.

Regarding Iraq, that would mean Russia can attack it first during R3. In that case the inf will be useless there. UK can open up NW Persia and strafe Iraq, hopefully leaving only 1-2 inf there.

The best is probably for UK to take Iraq in order to build a mIC there along with a mIC in Persia. That’s a stronghold.

The drawback of Russia taking Iraq is of course that it takes time, draws away important resources for the defence of Bryansk and Moscow and won’t allow UK to establish a bouble factory area.

trulpenplay · May 28, 2020, 3:20 PM

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Russians round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 1

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians buy 12 infantry; Remaining resources: 1 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        2 infantry moved from Bessarabia to Western Ukraine
        3 infantry moved from Ukraine to Western Ukraine
        2 infantry moved from Eastern Poland to Western Ukraine
        3 infantry moved from Baltic States to Belarus
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Volgograd to Bryansk
        1 armour and 1 mech_infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
        2 infantry moved from Karelia to Novgorod
        3 infantry moved from Vyborg to Novgorod
        1 submarine moved from 127 Sea Zone to 111 Sea Zone
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Novgorod
        1 infantry moved from Archangel to Belarus
        2 aaGuns, 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk
        6 infantry moved from Buryatia to Yakut S.S.R.
        2 aaGuns and 6 infantry moved from Sakha to Buryatia
        6 infantry moved from Amur to Buryatia
        1 aaGun, 1 artillery and 6 infantry moved from Novgorod to Belarus

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:21 PM

This is my preliminary suggestion for Russia.

Feel free to tweak it or point out flaws.

farmboy · May 28, 2020, 3:31 PM

@trulpen despite the Moscow focused build of Germany, I would still do an art/inf combo. Probably 4/7. One inf is unlikely to make the difference on Defense but 4 art can add valuable offense. A bit more offensive power will often force the Germans to be a bit more careful (less opportunity to divide their forces to grab more income) in their move East and it may give the Soviets a few more options at low risk. And the key way to stop the Germans is to get the allies in the mid east and norway sending air. The UK is in a good position to do so and its likely that he will do a J1 so the US can support earlier as well.

There is a chance given where the German units are set up, that he is going for a G2. You might want to calculate if a German stack is safe on G2 in E Poland. I think so but didn’t check. If so, I’d put the Soviet sub in 125 to at least get the convoy. I’d keep the fleet in 115 with the air ready to scramble. If he is going to go for it, he has to commit which pulls more of his air out of range of the Med.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:47 PM

True. But inf is the unit for Russia. Atleast the first 3-4 turns. I’m sure. Best bang for the buck, without a question. They also provide quite some offensive punch actually. Since we’re already preparing for defence, I’d say inf is the way to go for us.

An alternative is 6 tanks. Main idea is to prevent a G2DOW and stacking in E Poland.

The real problem here is that Germany doesn’t have to DOW until G3. Italy can do it instead with the same intrusion progress. They’ll have 1-2 tanks and 1-3 air at their disposal. I’m pretty sure it’s not in Russia’s interest to try to block that, since then they will be steamrolled by G.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 3:49 PM

The sub might be better in z125, but along with the previous reservation I’d really like to be able to save it by getting it into z109 in R2. It will be more vulnerable in z110.

farmboy · May 28, 2020, 3:59 PM

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

True. But inf is the unit for Russia. Atleast the first 3-4 turns. I’m sure. Best bang for the buck, without a question. They also provide quite some offensive punch actually. Since we’re already preparing for defence, I’d say inf is the way to go for us.

An alternative is 6 tanks. Main idea is to prevent a G2DOW and stacking in E Poland.

The real problem here is that Germany doesn’t have to DOW until G3. Italy can do it instead with the same intrusion progress. They’ll have 1-2 tanks and 1-3 air at their disposal. I’m pretty sure it’s not in Russia’s interest to try to block that, since then they will be steamrolled by G.

Yeah, I wouldn’t go the tank route. Too costly and too much risk for the allied player too. But the art can be handy early I think. The sub in 125 is a pretty minor choice. I would just go for it to make him pay a bit more in the unlikely event of a G2. And you might have more trouble getting the sub out after but he has to build a destroyer to hit it (which he might not otherwise do on G2 if he is focusing on Moscow) and you can move it to 123, so to get it he would need to sacrifice the destroyer and likely pull air out of position to destroy it. But it will delay getting it to join a UK/US stack in 91/92 if that is the aim.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 5:55 PM

I enjoy art with Russia, but only if it’s feasible. Don’t think it will be regarding the Moscow rush.

For every 3 art, we get 4 inf.

For 37 IPC, we get 12 inf two times and 13 inf the third.

That’s the logic of my suggestion.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 6:09 PM

I also would prefer to get the russian sub to join and strenghten an allied fleet, while also providing can-opening threats. The best route for the sub is not fully clear. Depends on what tasks we want to give it.

farmboy · May 28, 2020, 7:15 PM

@trulpen said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

I enjoy art with Russia, but only if it’s feasible. Don’t think it will be regarding the Moscow rush.

For every 3 art, we get 4 inf.

For 37 IPC, we get 12 inf two times and 13 inf the third.

That’s the logic of my suggestion.

12 inf is certainly a sensible buy on R1 and I agree that you will want to maximize Soviet inf in the long run. But on R1, I would still go for 4 art. I probably wouldn’t on R2 and after, depending on the German buys.

I think the loss of 1 inf won’t be as impactful in G5/6/7 as the 4 art buy will be beneficial. An R1 buy allows you to move them in position for G3. And because of the allied play in the med or Atlantic, you may force the Germans to underspend against Moscow later. As the Germans move towards Moscow, having that artillery can reduce their freedom of action a little as they have more difficulty safely splitting their forces. So their ability to hold Bryansk and send fast movers South becomes a bit more constrained. And it is pretty unlikely that the difference in Moscow will have been one inf. You certainly want to maximize defensive builds in Moscow but the difference in the end will be whether allied air can join Moscow in sufficient numbers.

The soviet strategy has to be to turtle when Germany focuses on it. But I think you want to find ways of turtling that reduce German freedom of action as much as possible. Adding a few more art on R1 is a small way to do that. But if you feel safer with an all inf buy that is certainly a good choice as well. Just not my preference.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 7:20 PM

I used to go either 6 tanks or 7 inf, 4 art or 3 inf, 7 art. After playing with @axis-dominion I’ve changed my mind and believe that solely inf for atleast the 3-4 first rounds is the most solid purchase strategy.

Glad you provide your thoughts on the matter. It’s good.

wizmark · May 28, 2020, 8:32 PM

@trulpen Having been on the wrong end of the russian extra NOs in asia and africa, I would say that they are a powerful addition to Russia. Even after I got fast movers past moscow and took the russian hinterlands, you were still pulling in 25+ipcs which really held up the german advance, and pushed me towards the ME just to stop those extra bucks.

trulpen · May 28, 2020, 8:41 PM

I think if you had pushed harder on Moscow, which Andrew certainly will, I would’ve lost it anyway. But I’m not fully sure. Maybe it’s possible to defend Moscow enough in order to really capitalize on those NOs?

The problem is that the 2 mech and 2 tank will be offside for a while, as the air, but those are atleast more flexible. The 2 inf will be off and never get back for the take-down.

That’s 6-26 TUV very much needed by Moscow. Yet, if Russia is able to drag in more money than that in time, it’s a well worth strategy. They’ll earliest get Iraq R3, which is 5 IPC. R4 would be 5 IPC. R5 can very well be 15 IPC.

That is already pretty late though if Germany is pushing hard. The income also lags of course, only being able to use it the next turn, which makes the strategy less hopeful.

However, I like it! :laughing:

Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

TripleA Turn Summary: Germans round 1

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Russians round 1

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