Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 4:51 PM

@trulpen :) unfortunately, I’m about to start work but otherwise I would. Sorry!

trulpen · Jun 17, 2020, 5:14 PM

It’s ok, mr dishounoured honorary chief assistant.

I’ll try and do it myself later.

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 5:20 PM

@trulpen I did a quick look. Bryansk wouldn’t be close even with significant allied air support. All the land units he has to take Moscow on G6 are in range + most of the air. And you are about 20 inf shy of what you would have in Moscow on G6. But you can still build hte mechs. Because he doesn’t have a safe northern route you can retreat to Vologda.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 17, 2020, 5:33 PM

Wow, that is an aggressive turn after being so cautious up to this point.

don’t waste 22 PUs killing one soldier in Karelia. At most attack it with 1 inf
don’t waste that soldier in Vyborg
don’t waste that soldier in Baltic States. Not a good exchange for 1 PU

For the purchase, perhaps consider 1 more fighter. They defend slightly worse than 3 inf, but I find that you can get good return on the investment by hindering bombing and helping in small skirmishes in areas around Moscow.

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 5:40 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris the point is to get the British air in Moscow before a G6 attack. In fact, they can arrive before G5 to deny the Germans a safe Strat bombing. It may be the case, and this should still be considered, that the UK air is more needed in the Atlantic, but given that Germany has good odds on G6, this might also be necessary.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 17, 2020, 5:41 PM

@farmboy Definitely no way to hold Bryansk next round. If we had more Russian artillery, he would not have been able to split his forces between W Ukraine and Ukraine on G4, preventing him from even threatening Bryansk while holding the very important Ukraine territory. I am a big fan of more art purchased on R1 or R2 that can hinder the G4 advance.

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 5:44 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris an art build early is usually my preference too.

The inf in Baltic is meant to deny Germany Leningrad for another turn. So the trade is -5 for Russia )2 lost inf but +1 and -7 and no G5 build for Germany.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 17, 2020, 5:44 PM

@farmboy We definitely need UK fighters in Moscow on UK5 or else Russia will fall to a G6 attack. He hasn’t lost any planes and did well in his G1 attack on Paris. At the very least, we need to make it a costly attack.

I assume that he will pivot to attack the Middle East and hook up with Japanese forces.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 17, 2020, 5:46 PM

@farmboy he still can take out the Baltic blocker with his italian bomber and rush in with a German tank. Crazy expensive plan to hold Leningrad for a turn.

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 5:46 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris attacking and stacking Karelia then gives the UK air in London a route to Moscow. So he loses 2 tanks and a mech from the defense but gains up to 6 air. In a subsequent turn, he is also going to have trouble defending scandinavia from the allies

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 17, 2020, 5:47 PM

@farmboy okay now I understand. let me run the math

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 5:49 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@farmboy he still can take out the Baltic blocker with his italian bomber and rush in with a German tank. Crazy expensive plan to hold Leningrad for a turn.

the bomber adds a risk which might make it worth it to give up Leningrad. That is certainly true. You acn still block the Germans with air but that is not a good trade. At the same time, it is a risky attack for the Italian bomber.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 17, 2020, 5:50 PM

@farmboy I ran the numbers. At most you just need one mech to join the Karelia fight. Probably don’t even need that. Have the fighter attack the Karelia push, and use the UK bomber to take out the German transport.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 17, 2020, 5:53 PM

Interesting thought: have the UK planes strafe the Finland infantry, allowing the Russian tank to blitz into Sweden to save Trulpen’s hometown. It is a bit ballsy, but crazy good since he has no way to retake Scandinavia. Most likely will lose 2 planes, with a massive income boost for Russia.

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 6:07 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Interesting thought: have the UK planes strafe the Finland infantry, allowing the Russian tank to blitz into Sweden to save Trulpen’s hometown. It is a bit ballsy, but crazy good since he has no way to retake Scandinavia. Most likely will lose 2 planes, with a massive income boost for Russia.

it would be very tempting, but at this point an unlikely roll might be game decisive. The air in Karelia save Moscow and the allies have time to push on the Med or on Norway.

I agree that the less he needs to bring into Karelia, the better, but assuming a German defensive hit, a German strafe (5 inf 4 air) can do damage to the UK air if there are not enough Soviet land units to absorb the damage. Agree though that he can attack with less and then adjust based on the hits. He also has to think about whether all the allied air should go in. He was thinking about 4-5 but it is probably the case that he should go all in.

And yes, the bomber is a better option for hitting the transport.

farmboy · Jun 17, 2020, 6:07 PM

unlucky not unlikely roll

trulpen · Jun 17, 2020, 6:39 PM

Thanks for your input and going through the plan with more concrete analysis, all while yours truly were out on a 10 km run. Good cooperation! :grin:

I’m liking this idea of an aggressive north, without investing too much, like putting 7 inf and 4 art there heading to be toast (just an example).

I agree that the UK bomber has a well deserved task of kicking the trannies ass and that the russian forces will be used for better causes.

The risk of italian bomber-can-opening in the Baltic or Belarus dissuades me from both building the mechs and having air in Leningrad. Using 2 + 2 inf to block both positions is just too costly.

Still think the plan with 6 figs in Karelia is a good one.

If Leningrad is empty, I don’t think we should be discontent with Italy risking it’s bomber while pansar head north instead of east.

trulpen · Jun 17, 2020, 6:49 PM

Hey, if the figs go to Karelia, one of the can pick off the trannie and the bomber can do some damage on the WG MIC.

trulpen · Jun 17, 2020, 7:26 PM

I’m not at all convinced about this, but have now finally decided upon building 3 mechs in Leningrad, or, if the north fails, in Stalingrad. The latter certainly is a bit risky, but carries some potential.

Lets put this in the category “attack is the best defence”.

And I know that Germany don’t care as much about Leningrad as Moscow, but the lower income they have the longer, the easier it will be for the Allies to push through on the west front.

Lets also put this in the category “heroic sacrifices for the greater good”.

trulpenplay · Jun 17, 2020, 7:28 PM

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Russians round 3

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Russians
        Russians buy 9 infantry and 3 mech_infantrys; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Combat Move - Russians
        Turning on Edit Mode
        EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode
        1 infantry moved from Belarus to Baltic States
              Russians take Baltic States from Germans
        1 infantry moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
        2 armour, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Novgorod to Karelia
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Vyborg
        1 mech_infantry moved from Caucasus to Iraq
              Russians take Iraq from Neutral_Axis
        1 fighter moved from Novgorod to Karelia

    Combat - Russians
        Russians creates battle in territory 125 Sea Zone
        Battle in Karelia
            Russians attack with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 2 armour, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry in Karelia, round 2 : 2/6 hits, 2,00 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Karelia, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Karelia
            Russians win, taking Karelia from Germans with 2 armour, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 mech_infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is 0
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry
            Casualties for Germans: 1 infantry
        Battle in Vyborg
            Russians attack with 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber
            Germans defend with 1 infantry
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Vyborg, round 2 : 0/3 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Vyborg, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                Russians roll dice for 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Vyborg, round 3 : 0/3 hits, 1,33 expected hits
                Germans roll dice for 1 infantry in Vyborg, round 3 : 1/1 hits, 0,33 expected hits
                1 infantry owned by the Russians lost in Vyborg
             retreated to Vyborg
            Germans win with 1 infantry remaining. Battle score for attacker is -3
            Casualties for Russians: 1 infantry

    Non Combat Move - Russians
        1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Vyborg to Russia
        1 fighter moved from Karelia to Russia

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Germans : 1,00
Russians : -2,67

Savegame

Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Russians round 3

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