Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

farmboy · Jun 18, 2020, 8:12 PM

@trulpen It may not be foolish for him to go after it if it helps him get Egypt. He just has to win on one side. But you can set up to protect it at this point.

All China and UK units in range of Burma go there. The rest of the China units go or are built in Yunnan. A blocker (if needed) in 79 and the fleet in 80. A mech build in Persia (to reach W India) and a landing in E Persia with UK air on the carrier or in E Persia might make it difficult for him to secure India. And hit Shan state with one inf and three air.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 18, 2020, 9:49 PM

@farmboy so Burma-attrition is just Japan retaking India every turn for the foreseeable future, tying up a couple transports and an aircraft carrier until UK Pacific runs out of ground troops in 4-6 turns?

Meanwhile his other 4 aircraft carriers capture the Money Islands, Carolines, and maybe parts of ANZAC?

trulpen · Jun 18, 2020, 9:55 PM

I guess. What’s your proposed alternative?

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 18, 2020, 9:57 PM

@trulpen sometimes staying and dying is best. Keeps him busy for two turns and takes out most of his land units so they can’t just skip onto Africa or Middle East. Now is their time to die.

surfer · Jun 18, 2020, 9:58 PM

Stand and die!
IMHO, this is the best fix that BM3 made over OOB. The constant recapture of capitals becomes a cash cow for the Axis, and prevents the Allies from ever wanting to take back a capital. The Allied capitals are isolated from each other, so its hard to really retake without at least a few rounds of the Axis gaining $$. Especially true in India.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 18, 2020, 9:58 PM

If you are lucky, maybe you can take out a few planes. I haven’t run the battle calc. You really don’t want him to get the India money twice each round, and you want China freed up to recapture the Mainland.

surfer · Jun 18, 2020, 10:00 PM

Perhaps, you could move to Burma and plan on strafes, that reduce the number of ground troops, but avoid taking the capital so that it isn’t feeding the Japanese war machine.

surfer · Jun 18, 2020, 10:03 PM

The problem there is that the US is not in a position to bring large numbers of ground troops to help out. If you escape to the Persian side, then perhaps you can get some reinforcements in time. The added advantage is that you free up the Chinese to rage over the countryside

farmboy · Jun 18, 2020, 11:05 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris If you stack India, you are counting on beating the average roll in order to be able to take out several of his air. Odds are he loses no more than 1-2 air even if you keep the fighters there. After that, he has a base to support a Japanese attack on the ME or can pull the full fleet and air back to contest the Pacific (or both). He also gets a mIC for free. If you hold Burma, than you are stretching his forces. He needs to commit a certain amount of Navy to protect the transports both in 39 and 36 (and possibly 37) which limits there ability to move elsewhere without reducing his threat to India. He needs to produce land units in his factories to replace the ones that he has committed (which means he can’t as easily buy naval or new transports in FIC). And a Caroline Islands US navy makes naval builds in Japan more difficult. And he has to secure the money islands with fewer units to directly counter the Americans and ANZAC. And this doesn’t have to go on for perpetuity. But I think it is a better move this turn as Trulpen is beginning to reinforce the Pacific.

Japan is in great shape in this game so this is not necessarily going to stop them. But stacking India likely means you kill 6-8 land units and 1-2 air and that is not going to stop them either.

farmboy · Jun 18, 2020, 11:17 PM

On the money, remember that he is convoying Calcutta anyway so it will not likely be more than 3 a turn. And you don’t need to do it forever.

farmboy · Jun 18, 2020, 11:20 PM

@surfer actually a retreat to W India might be a better option than Burma since it allows the same thing, but does free China.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 19, 2020, 4:30 PM

@farmboy He should be down to just the tank in India which can’t step out before getting hit in Persia. I am not that worried that he will build up enough forces in India to threaten the Middle East, unless he completely abandons the Pacific. UK can build 6 units/turn in the Middle East, with Japan only producing 3 to fight against them. China will be up to 23 units, including 4 art. He won’t be able to stand in front of that Juggernaut until late game.

Honestly, Japan isn’t doing as well as many OOB games. Russia can swing around with 8 Infantry and retake Kansu, ensuring that Japan’s northern forces don’t enter into Siberia. I think that his units will get crushed between the Chinese heading North and the Russians heading East. The bigger issue is how many Russian forces we lost killing the German unit in Karelia.

I would not want him to have 5 loaded transports + massive airforce that are free to do anything this round. He could claim Celebes and threaten to make a mess out of the Pacific.

farmboy · Jun 19, 2020, 4:30 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris If Trulpen and Andrew both go all in (including 3 UK air), the average # of casualties is 10 for Japan. About 1-2 of that is air because of the AA so that means he on average keeps 3-4 land units and 20 or so air. His fleet is then united, he has all the transports, the naval base, and he will have built 6 more units in FIC by the time he swings around back (more if he builds another mIC in Malaya). THe US and ANZAC may have grabbed some money islands in the meantime or the Philippines, but they won’t yet be in a position to deny Japan their recapture.

I think you are right that he won’t be in a position to hit Egypt but he will have the base from which to do so later if he needs (and after Moscow has fallen) and he can certainly cause some mischief for the UK now. The Persia mIC could certainly be at risk.

If, on this next turn, India cannot be safely secured, then he has to keep units in that sea zone to protect the transports that will do the landing (and possibly to hold the landing spot in Ceylon). He also wants to grab the money islands. If Anzac takes Java this turn, he needs to commit two transports to do so. Those transports are either sacrificed or defended. If defended, can he stretch out to defend them and also to defend sz36. If sacrificed, where does he replace them? If he does in FIC then he has to build fewer land units. If he does in Japan he needs to pull fleet back to protect them (assuming the fleet remains in Caroline Islands).

And if at any point, he decides to go after the US and ANZAC, then it becomes much more difficult for him to hold India.

But I do agree that it is better to send China after the mainland and I think Surfer’s suggestion of W India to stack the UK is better. It both helps protect the Mid East and frees China to put pressure on Japan on another front. I was just too fixated on combining the UK and China units and Burma is the option for that.

Arthur Bomber Harris · Jun 19, 2020, 4:37 PM

Yeah, the key will be trying to get the China mainland to be either in Chinese hands, or in a prolonged and expensive war. You don’t want Japan to be able to ignore the big stack in Burma since it is worth so little. Most of the 30 PUs are along the Eastern cost, with Korea being the crown jewel.

This will be the last turn to buy art, so stock up on 3. Wish we had some more from previous turns.

trulpen · Jun 19, 2020, 4:41 PM

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

This will be the last turn to buy art, so stock up on 3. Wish we had some more from previous turns.

This turn we will maximize art. I promise. :)

trulpen · Jun 19, 2020, 5:30 PM

I’m about to allocate US CMs.

I like to have bombers in the EU. They’re great in the Med. Might definitely have some purpose in the Pac, but trickier there with logistics.

I will buy all Pac.

trulpenplay · Jun 19, 2020, 7:42 PM

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 3

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post for game: World War II Global 1940 2nd Edition, version: 4.0

Game History

Round: 3

    Purchase Units - Americans
        Americans buy 2 carriers, 3 fighters, 1 infantry and 1 transport; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 

    Politics - Americans
        Trigger Americans Friendly With Mongolians activates a trigger called: Trigger Allies Friendly With Mongolians

    Combat Move - Americans
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from Central United States to 101 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry, 1 mech_infantry and 2 transports moved from 101 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 2 infantry and 1 mech_infantry moved from 91 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
        1 cruiser moved from 89 Sea Zone to 91 Sea Zone
        2 fighters moved from 89 Sea Zone to Gibraltar
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Caroline Islands to 33 Sea Zone
        1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 33 Sea Zone to 32 Sea Zone
        1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 32 Sea Zone to Marshall Islands

Combat Hit Differential Summary :

Savegame

trulpen · Jun 19, 2020, 7:47 PM

Grabbing Marshall. Don’t expect to be able to make any proper landings next turn either, and I like that J gets less islands to eventually land on as well as having to take them back.

Attacking Gibraltar with 2 inf, 1 art, 1 mech, 2 fig. Should be enough. If it fails, UK has a follow-up.

The plan is to swing over the other fig and tac to z26, to land on the ac.

Any fleet in the Atlantic will stay in the Atlantic, namely z91.

farmboy · Jun 19, 2020, 7:52 PM

I wouldn’t take Marshall yet at least not with both land units. Better to have the threat to land attack Japan elsewhere. I’d also suggest attacking Gib with the 4 air and bring both carriers over, but I’m guessing you are planning to pull the other one to the pacific.

trulpen · Jun 19, 2020, 7:54 PM

@farmboy said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

I wouldn’t take Marshall yet at least not with both land units. Better to have the threat to land attack Japan elsewhere. I’d also suggest attacking Gib with the 4 air and bring both carriers over, but I’m guessing you are planning to pull the other one to the pacific.

No, like I said :) both ac’s will go to z91.

Building 3 figs. 2 can pop up in WUS if the plan is to stay in z91 or EUS if we eye z110 immediately.

Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

TripleA Manual Gamesave Post: Americans round 3

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