Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

surfer

China. I’m a fan of take Kwangsi with everything and offer China over India to some Japanese aggression. Otherwise, just move north and expand

Arthur Bomber Harris

@surfer I guess all we need in Kwangsi are two inf and the plane. The rest of the stack can go to Hunan. Buy Chinese art this round because the Burma road will get closed. I wish our China stack was further North so you could have hooked up with the Mongols. It will be a bunch of turns before they can do anything important.

surfer

Britain. Is purely a support play. Send transports to Morocco. Add ftr to Gib if necessary. Otherwise fly to Karelia, take out the G transport with bomber (unfortunately, neither the ftrs nor sub can) The subs on the Med have convoy duty.
The only attack will be 2 trans ports + air attack Brit. Somaliland to get UK NO bonus. Can grab Ethiopia as well. Return the 2 mob inf to India…
May want to consider keeping the ftrs + tac out of India. It’s a lost cause, but the TUV swing is +46 if they stay, and +35 if they leave (i.e., everybody dies so quickly the fighters don’t get to kill much) In fact, if they stay, you probably only get 1 (maybe 2) ftrs for your 3 air units.

surfer

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris Curious about placing plane in Kwangsi. Offer up a sacrificial lamb to J? but I would think take that and get India still. Air blitz + 1 guy as they still have lots of overstrength for India.

farmboy

More or less agree with Surfer on the US. I’d also note that it would suck if you send the carrier back and then find because of his German air builds that you need another one in the Atlantic. If it is in 28 it is the equivalent of being in 10, so you might as well just build in 10 and bring both carriers forward in the Atlantic.

In the Pacific, I don’t think the US should take territory (unless you can hold it) until you get more loaded transports arriving). But I think I think you should stay at Queensland or Caroline Islands (if you can safely).

If you want an alternative to stacking India, I would at least consider the Burma stack and would combine this with pulling the UK fleet around back to Persia. It does drag out his attack on India, and gives you more time to get the US back in the Pacific. He has to commit land units to India which you can destroy (and which he can’t easily replace), keeps the transports there, and pull enough Navy to protect it (which will give the US more room to maneuver). And if you do this, the US fleet should stay in the South so it is in range of the islands. I would also wait on the attack on British Somaliland as the transports would be exposed. Instead bring units to E Persia so that they can move to W India after. Maybe you need that fleet in the Med, but I think this turn it might be better here.

I’d also be very careful with the UK air. I think you should send one UK air down to Gib and the rest to Karelia but also be mindful that you probably want a large part of the UK air to be able to reach Moscow on the turn after next. If you try to hold India, I would definitely not leave air there. You will need it after.

trulpen

I’m keen on doing the strategy with Burma-attrition. I think it’s sound. The only reservation is the mIC in Persia, but J would be foolish to go after it. I think. Main goal is Calcutta and being able to secure it.

farmboy

@trulpen It may not be foolish for him to go after it if it helps him get Egypt. He just has to win on one side. But you can set up to protect it at this point.

All China and UK units in range of Burma go there. The rest of the China units go or are built in Yunnan. A blocker (if needed) in 79 and the fleet in 80. A mech build in Persia (to reach W India) and a landing in E Persia with UK air on the carrier or in E Persia might make it difficult for him to secure India. And hit Shan state with one inf and three air.

Arthur Bomber Harris

@farmboy so Burma-attrition is just Japan retaking India every turn for the foreseeable future, tying up a couple transports and an aircraft carrier until UK Pacific runs out of ground troops in 4-6 turns?

Meanwhile his other 4 aircraft carriers capture the Money Islands, Carolines, and maybe parts of ANZAC?

trulpen

I guess. What’s your proposed alternative?

Arthur Bomber Harris

@trulpen sometimes staying and dying is best. Keeps him busy for two turns and takes out most of his land units so they can’t just skip onto Africa or Middle East. Now is their time to die.

surfer

Stand and die!
IMHO, this is the best fix that BM3 made over OOB. The constant recapture of capitals becomes a cash cow for the Axis, and prevents the Allies from ever wanting to take back a capital. The Allied capitals are isolated from each other, so its hard to really retake without at least a few rounds of the Axis gaining $$. Especially true in India.

Arthur Bomber Harris

If you are lucky, maybe you can take out a few planes. I haven’t run the battle calc. You really don’t want him to get the India money twice each round, and you want China freed up to recapture the Mainland.

surfer

Perhaps, you could move to Burma and plan on strafes, that reduce the number of ground troops, but avoid taking the capital so that it isn’t feeding the Japanese war machine.

surfer

The problem there is that the US is not in a position to bring large numbers of ground troops to help out. If you escape to the Persian side, then perhaps you can get some reinforcements in time. The added advantage is that you free up the Chinese to rage over the countryside

farmboy

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris If you stack India, you are counting on beating the average roll in order to be able to take out several of his air. Odds are he loses no more than 1-2 air even if you keep the fighters there. After that, he has a base to support a Japanese attack on the ME or can pull the full fleet and air back to contest the Pacific (or both). He also gets a mIC for free. If you hold Burma, than you are stretching his forces. He needs to commit a certain amount of Navy to protect the transports both in 39 and 36 (and possibly 37) which limits there ability to move elsewhere without reducing his threat to India. He needs to produce land units in his factories to replace the ones that he has committed (which means he can’t as easily buy naval or new transports in FIC). And a Caroline Islands US navy makes naval builds in Japan more difficult. And he has to secure the money islands with fewer units to directly counter the Americans and ANZAC. And this doesn’t have to go on for perpetuity. But I think it is a better move this turn as Trulpen is beginning to reinforce the Pacific.

Japan is in great shape in this game so this is not necessarily going to stop them. But stacking India likely means you kill 6-8 land units and 1-2 air and that is not going to stop them either.

farmboy

On the money, remember that he is convoying Calcutta anyway so it will not likely be more than 3 a turn. And you don’t need to do it forever.

farmboy

@surfer actually a retreat to W India might be a better option than Burma since it allows the same thing, but does free China.

Arthur Bomber Harris

@farmboy He should be down to just the tank in India which can’t step out before getting hit in Persia. I am not that worried that he will build up enough forces in India to threaten the Middle East, unless he completely abandons the Pacific. UK can build 6 units/turn in the Middle East, with Japan only producing 3 to fight against them. China will be up to 23 units, including 4 art. He won’t be able to stand in front of that Juggernaut until late game.

Honestly, Japan isn’t doing as well as many OOB games. Russia can swing around with 8 Infantry and retake Kansu, ensuring that Japan’s northern forces don’t enter into Siberia. I think that his units will get crushed between the Chinese heading North and the Russians heading East. The bigger issue is how many Russian forces we lost killing the German unit in Karelia.

I would not want him to have 5 loaded transports + massive airforce that are free to do anything this round. He could claim Celebes and threaten to make a mess out of the Pacific.

farmboy

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris If Trulpen and Andrew both go all in (including 3 UK air), the average # of casualties is 10 for Japan. About 1-2 of that is air because of the AA so that means he on average keeps 3-4 land units and 20 or so air. His fleet is then united, he has all the transports, the naval base, and he will have built 6 more units in FIC by the time he swings around back (more if he builds another mIC in Malaya). THe US and ANZAC may have grabbed some money islands in the meantime or the Philippines, but they won’t yet be in a position to deny Japan their recapture.

I think you are right that he won’t be in a position to hit Egypt but he will have the base from which to do so later if he needs (and after Moscow has fallen) and he can certainly cause some mischief for the UK now. The Persia mIC could certainly be at risk.

If, on this next turn, India cannot be safely secured, then he has to keep units in that sea zone to protect the transports that will do the landing (and possibly to hold the landing spot in Ceylon). He also wants to grab the money islands. If Anzac takes Java this turn, he needs to commit two transports to do so. Those transports are either sacrificed or defended. If defended, can he stretch out to defend them and also to defend sz36. If sacrificed, where does he replace them? If he does in FIC then he has to build fewer land units. If he does in Japan he needs to pull fleet back to protect them (assuming the fleet remains in Caroline Islands).

And if at any point, he decides to go after the US and ANZAC, then it becomes much more difficult for him to hold India.

But I do agree that it is better to send China after the mainland and I think Surfer’s suggestion of W India to stack the UK is better. It both helps protect the Mid East and frees China to put pressure on Japan on another front. I was just too fixated on combining the UK and China units and Burma is the option for that.

Arthur Bomber Harris

Yeah, the key will be trying to get the China mainland to be either in Chinese hands, or in a prolonged and expensive war. You don’t want Japan to be able to ignore the big stack in Burma since it is worth so little. Most of the 30 PUs are along the Eastern cost, with Korea being the crown jewel.

This will be the last turn to buy art, so stock up on 3. Wish we had some more from previous turns.

Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

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