Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB

True, but I still think it is the way to go. Building 1 bomber isn’t a problem since if he commits to holding it, then he is going to have to build an airbase and you need air to counter the scramble. And if he attacks Morocco without landing the inf, there is some risk to him as well. Plus, with the UK air in Malta, the fleet back in the Suez, and the subs in 92, the Italian fleet would not be safe in 97 without significant support, let alone anywhere else in the Med.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@farmboy Morocco will likely be captured by Italy this round. There won’t be a landing spot for the bomber to land from E USA. If he stacks Gibraltar with planes, he will be able to hold it for one more more round at a minimum. It is going to be a challenge to dislodge him, especially with UK and Russia facing the squash from Japan.

Possibly

I just did a practice turn to see what the end result would look like. There would be a number of things that I would still want to think about here. These would include the distribution of units between Yunnan and India and whether the fleets in 54 and 109 are safe. 63 and 106 are also options there. I didn’t stack Malta as I had initially planned as I thought that was too risky. And I decided that because the Japan fleet is in the South I could afford to not build the naval base, but still a point to consider. I also assumed the inf on the transport off Hawaii was there in error and edited it on to Hawaii. But it might be too late to do that or not an error. And sorry if this is annoying. I just had some time and no other turns to play and enjoyed the procrastination. allied turns tutor game.tsvg

@trulpen

Basically a minimal investment in the Atlantic on Turn 1 would have save 4 transports, two carriers with full air on it on the second round? Hmmm, hmmm!:)

@Omega1759 I just can’t fathom spending 50 in the Atlantic and having the game look like this at this point. Italy should have been crushed with that much extra units.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@Omega1759 I just can’t fathom spending 50 in the Atlantic and having the game look like this at this point. Italy should have been crushed with that much extra units.

To crush Italy now it will take over 100 IPC of Italy spend in the Atlantic. And even with that as of now he can reinforce Gibraltar pretty hard. He would need at least 5 loaded transport + lots of air support by the time he gets ready to assault Gibraltar. Trouble is that Axis air both defends on land + can counter-attack the navy + transports ferry back and forth (vs coming in a single strike). The Axis can spend 1 IPC for every 2 or 3 IPC spent to retake Gibraltar (not mentioning loss of UK NO and gain on Italy NO). This Gibraltar grab is worth at least 30 IPC per turn. It also renders the UK air force and navy completely useless!

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

2 loaded carriers = 52.
4 loaded transports = 56
1 destroyer = 8

Total = 116. Yet this is not adequate, not enough to take Gibraltar even if that 116 IPC existed. This is the cost to let Italy get 2 transports and leave it with a substantial air force.

@Omega1759 I do think that the Axis will be forced to leave Gibraltar soon because defending it starts distracting Germany from the even more attack into Russia or Egypt. I think that he will be gone in another two rounds. Still, that is a huge amount of extra income for Italy during this time.

I have no idea why the UK Med fleet ran towards India. I don’t see what it will do before it inevitably goes back to the Med. The 5 PU bonus for no Allied ships in the Med is a killer bonus for Italy.

Math wrong, 2 loaded carriers worth a lot more than this… 72! 136 IPCs with no results whatsoever. Might as well go full bombers with the US to have more flexibility.

Clearly by building navy with Japan he’s looking to do the typical "Japan spends 16 on a carrier and the US needs to respond by spending more than 36 by buying a carrier, 2 fighters + some more stuff to compensate for the defense vs. offense capability + disadvantage of not being close to home island. The US is rendered useless by logistics here.

@Omega1759 I was talking about spending the 50 PU bid in the Atlantic/Africa and failing to do any significant attacks against Italy on the first round. Playing an entirely defensive game is a guaranteed loss for the Allies.

@Omega1759 I have never done the “Japan skips China” plan. Does he buy lots of bombers to project power into India, the Money Islands, and Russia simultaneously?

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris

Italy can reinforce with 4 ground units per turn (for now, probably 6 units per turn next turn) and many of the ground units are already on the board. There are already 2 Italian fighters on the board. I don’t think the German fighters are necessarily needed on the Eastern front. It might just need that Moscow falls a bit later or we head down the middle east.

@Omega1759 I am actually fine if Italy spends all of his money reinforcing Gibraltar. I am much more worried of a Japan+Italy crush of Egpyt. He has so many evil things he can do now that he is avoiding China completely.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@Omega1759 I have never done the “Japan skips China” plan. Does he buy lots of bombers to project power into India, the Money Islands, and Russia simultaneously?

In my view he buys enough navy to keep control of SZ6, money Island. Put a bit of pressure on Russia, Make sure that Chinese don’t push him out too quickly by pressuring forces. Put enough pressure on India to keep Moscow weak.

If Japan absorbs most of US spending, the Axis are sure winner here because both Russia and Egypt will fall. It’s only a matter of time and he can be patient (he can be even out earned and achieve it)

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@Omega1759 I am actually fine if Italy spends all of his money reinforcing Gibraltar. I am much more worried of a Japan+Italy crush of Egpyt. He has so many evil things he can do now that he is avoiding China completely.

This is a risk, but because it’s risky I don’t think this is what he has planned. I think he’s playing logistics with a slow and steady push. He will surely be in a position to exploit mistakes if there are any along the way.

@Arthur-Bomber-Harris said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

@Omega1759 I was talking about spending the 50 PU bid in the Atlantic/Africa and failing to do any significant attacks against Italy on the first round. Playing an entirely defensive game is a guaranteed loss for the Allies.

Yah, there is a swing of at least 200 IPCs from sending the fleet out in the Pacific and not making a determined stand in the Atlantic. The Luftwaffe is intact with a 50 IPC bid, it’s a complete waste. Note how the IPC gap is only 225 at the end of J2, you usually see 300-350 at this point. Without bid we would be at 175!

@Omega1759 so does China move to Guizhou this round, supported one more round by UK assistance? I really wish that Russia would keep their fighters in Moscow since they are sitting there on the Western front and will never be able to do very much. They could have helped reinforce China and then returned by the time Germany had any exploitable weaknesses.

I think that China needs to make a run for Manchuria and Korea to deprive Japan of the income. If they are adding 5 new units per round, they will be unattackable by the time they get up there.

@Omega1759 said in Tutor game: AndrewAAGamer (X) vs trulpen [and everyone else] (A+50) OOB:

Yah, there is a swing of at least 200 IPCs from sending the fleet out in the Pacific and not making a determined stand in the Atlantic. The Luftwaffe is intact with a 50 IPC bid, it’s a complete waste. Note how the IPC gap is only 225 at the end of J2, you usually see 300-350 at this point. Without bid we would be at 175!

The intact Luftwaffe is the worst part. He should have at least lost a few planes taking out the UK fleet after the Italian fleet was destroyed. Once he boosts it up with a bunch of bombers, it will be a force of dread. Adam’s biggest complaint about the game is the overpowered nature of Axis bombers that can project power in so many directions.

Other bad aspect for the allies, Japan not about to lose transports any time soon. Imagine him build ~1 carrier a turn + 13 infantry, that’s entirely possible.

@Omega1759 why build 13 infantry? What would they possibly do for Japan as he skips China?