Defending sub surprise strike

My last russian sub attacked a Jap. DD in the pacific with the help of a bomber.

This allowed the USA fleet to be unblocked and destroy the Jap. fleet.    :evil:

@General:

In every game of axis and allies AA I have played… Subs havebeen useless.  Nobody has ever bought any subs.  Destroyers are so esily obtained and massed with a fleet they provide cover from subs.  Germany was famed for its “wolfpack” but in AA germany doesnt even get to build a fleet unless the allies are losing hard.

Can anyone advocate the use of subs for any power in the game?

I can’t.

Sorry if I repeat someone but here goes:

Point of Submarines:

If you build a significant number of them before the enemy, and the enemy cannot keep up with destroyers, you can have a cheaper win.

Odds of Success:

Minimal at best.  Your opponent would have to be pretty dense to let you amass a huge fleet of submarines without having at least 50% that number in defensive destroyers/bonus hits on battleships to soak them.

Realistic Outcome:

Either no one has submarines, or everyone has submarines and no one has a surface fleet.  It just seems that’s where things pan out.  This is awesome since no one can really win the game without surface ships since both sides have an island capitol.

I’ve seen a search roll used, maybe in aarhe, or somewhere, where you would roll to see if you could find the enemy ships, whether subs or surface within the zone because it’s so vast, and if found, then you could shoot.  you could increase it for each sub/destroyer perhaps.

Thats what we have and have always used namely the 1:1 ratio for determining how many subs are negated and also the number of rolls for search

makes sense, thanks kreig.

@Krieghund:

Enemy subs can be attacked or ignored at will by the acting player.  The only effects that a destroyer has are to suppress subs special abilities and to allow air units to hit them.

‘sub’ stall is not a term we’ll be using in this game.

The only way to force combat or make a fleet stay is to drop a surface vessel.  Most likely a DD.

thanks!

@AxisOfEvil:

@Romulus:

Krieghund already explained that it is a problem of wording, the word selected “attack” should have been “surprise strike” or “surprise firing”, if I am not making a mistake.

I am not english born but I am considering that “surprise attack” has been not used to indicate the “attack” but the roll of the dice trying to hit the enemy. I do not see the need for a specification for the sub being in defense being able to perform a surprise strike. It is a sub ability to stay hidden and strike by surprise. It do not depend by the role in the battle, the sub is  aiming to hit the enemy in both case, attack and defense, acting in the same way: lurking below the surface, hidden and dangerous.

given this logic, which I am not disputing, why then do subs defend at 1 and attack at 2?  :)

same reason why fighters attack at 3 and defend at 4  :wink:

Opps for got the link.

http://www.uboat.net/fates/losses/cause.htm

You either submerge or fight - not both.  If you take your surprise strike, you have to suffer the return fire (unless of course your attacker is a single ship that’s neither a sub nor a battleship and you hit it).