@simon33 No Scramble
oysteilo (Allies+9) vs Simon33 (Axis) BM3
-
TripleA Turn Summary: Russians round 3
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3 with Combat Move First, version: 3.4
Game History
Round: 3 Politics - Russians Russians takes Political Action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Japanese and Russians from Neutrality to Unprovoked Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Russians and Chinese from Neutrality to Allied Russians succeeds on action: Political Action Russians To War With Japanese: Changing Relationship for Russians and Dutch from Neutrality to Friendly Combat Move - Russians Trigger Russians Unrestricted Movement: Setting movementRestrictionTerritories cleared for rulesAttachment attached to Russians 1 armour moved from Belarus to Eastern Poland Russians take Eastern Poland from Germans 1 armour moved from Eastern Poland to Slovakia Hungary Russians take Slovakia Hungary from Germans 1 infantry moved from Baltic States to Novgorod 1 infantry moved from Belarus to Novgorod 1 artillery moved from Belarus to Novgorod 1 tactical_bomber moved from Russia to Novgorod 1 infantry moved from Belarus to Novgorod Purchase Units - Russians Russians buy 1 fighter and 9 infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; Combat - Russians Battle in Novgorod Russians attack with 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Germans defend with 1 airfield, 1 artillery, 1 factory_minor, 1 harbour and 1 infantry Russians roll dice for 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Novgorod, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 1,50 expected hits Germans roll dice for 1 artillery and 1 infantry in Novgorod, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0,67 expected hits 1 artillery owned by the Germans and 1 infantry owned by the Germans lost in Novgorod Russians win, taking Novgorod from Germans with 1 artillery, 3 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for Germans: 1 artillery and 1 infantry Non Combat Move - Russians 1 infantry moved from Belarus to Eastern Poland 1 infantry moved from Bryansk to Western Ukraine 1 armour and 2 mech_infantrys moved from Belarus to Novgorod 1 tactical_bomber moved from Novgorod to Bryansk 5 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk 5 artilleries moved from Belarus to Bryansk 3 infantry moved from Russia to Bryansk 2 fighters moved from Russia to Yunnan 1 aaGun and 6 infantry moved from Yakut S.S.R. to Yenisey 2 aaGuns and 9 infantry moved from Belarus to Novgorod 1 artillery and 2 infantry moved from Ukraine to Bryansk 2 aaGuns and 10 infantry moved from Belarus to Bryansk Place Units - Russians 1 fighter and 9 infantry placed in Russia Turn Complete - Russians Russians collect 39 PUs; end with 39 PUs Trigger Russians 7 Great Patriotic War: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 42 PUs Trigger Russians 2 Persia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 44 PUs Trigger Russians 3 Siberia Lend Lease Lane: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 46 PUs Trigger Russians 1 Lend Lease: Russians met a national objective for an additional 2 PUs; end with 48 PUs Objective Russians 2 Spread Of Communism: Russians met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 51 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
Germans : -0,67 Russians : 0,50 -
Aww man, I stuffed up. One of those planes didn’t have a landing space. Maybe I will just kill one as punishment?
-
TripleA Turn Summary: Japanese round 3
TripleA Turn Summary for game: World War II Global 1940 Balanced Mod3 with Combat Move First, version: 3.4
Game History
Round: 3 Combat Move - Japanese Turning on Edit Mode EDIT: Turning off Edit Mode 1 artillery moved from French Indo China to 36 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Kwangsi to 36 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from French Indo China to 43 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from French Indo China to Borneo 1 infantry moved from French Indo China to 36 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from Malaya to 37 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 transport moved from 37 Sea Zone to 41 Sea Zone 2 infantry moved from 41 Sea Zone to Sumatra EDIT: 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from Japan to 25 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 43 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from 43 Sea Zone to Borneo 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers moved from French Indo China to 38 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 36 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Celebes to 44 Sea Zone 1 artillery, 1 infantry and 1 transport moved from 44 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 2 artilleries and 2 infantry moved from 42 Sea Zone to Java 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 37 Sea Zone to Borneo 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 37 Sea Zone to Java 1 tactical_bomber moved from 44 Sea Zone to Java 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from French Indo China to 41 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 44 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 1 bomber moved from French Indo China to 41 Sea Zone Purchase Units - Japanese Japanese buy 1 armour, 2 artilleries, 1 carrier, 1 destroyer, 3 infantry and 1 mech_infantry; Remaining resources: 0 PUs; 6 SuicideAttackTokens; Combat - Japanese Battle in 43 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 1 transport Americans defend with 1 transport 1 transport owned by the Americans lost in 43 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 fighter and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for Americans: 1 transport Battle in 42 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 destroyer and 2 transports ANZAC defend with 1 transport 1 transport owned by the ANZAC lost in 42 Sea Zone Japanese win, taking 42 Sea Zone from Neutral with 1 destroyer and 2 transports remaining. Battle score for attacker is 7 Casualties for ANZAC: 1 transport Battle in Java Japanese attack with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers ANZAC defend with 2 infantry Japanese roll dice for 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers in Java, round 2 : 4/7 hits, 3.00 expected hits ANZAC roll dice for 2 infantry in Java, round 2 : 0/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 2 infantry owned by the ANZAC lost in Java Japanese win, taking Java from ANZAC with 2 artilleries, 1 fighter, 2 infantry and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is 6 Casualties for ANZAC: 2 infantry Battle in Borneo Japanese attack with 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber Americans defend with 2 infantry Japanese roll dice for 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 infantry and 1 tactical_bomber in Borneo, round 2 : 2/5 hits, 2.50 expected hits UK_Pacific roll dice for 2 infantry in Borneo, round 2 : 1/2 hits, 0.67 expected hits 1 infantry owned by the Japanese and 2 infantry owned by the Americans lost in Borneo Japanese win, taking Borneo from UK_Pacific with 1 artillery, 1 bomber, 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 3 Casualties for Japanese: 1 infantry Casualties for Americans: 2 infantry Battle in 41 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport French defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport in 41 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/3 hits, 1.83 expected hits French roll dice for 1 destroyer in 41 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the French lost in 41 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 bomber, 1 fighter, 1 tactical_bomber and 1 transport remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for French: 1 destroyer Battle in Sumatra Battle in 25 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber Americans defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber in 25 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/2 hits, 1.17 expected hits Americans roll dice for 1 destroyer in 25 Sea Zone, round 2 : 0/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 destroyer owned by the Americans lost in 25 Sea Zone Japanese win, taking Sumatra from Dutch with 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber remaining. Battle score for attacker is 8 Casualties for Americans: 1 destroyer Battle in 38 Sea Zone Japanese attack with 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers British defend with 1 destroyer Japanese roll dice for 2 fighters and 2 tactical_bombers in 38 Sea Zone, round 2 : 2/4 hits, 2.33 expected hits British roll dice for 1 destroyer in 38 Sea Zone, round 2 : 1/1 hits, 0.33 expected hits 1 fighter owned by the Japanese and 1 destroyer owned by the British lost in 38 Sea Zone Japanese win with 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers remaining. Battle score for attacker is -2 Casualties for Japanese: 1 fighter Casualties for British: 1 destroyer Non Combat Move - Japanese 1 fighter could not land in 41 Sea Zone and was removed 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from 38 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 bomber moved from 41 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 bomber moved from Borneo to French Indo China 2 carriers moved from 37 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 2 tactical_bombers moved from Java to 42 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from Borneo to 42 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from Borneo to 42 Sea Zone 1 tactical_bomber moved from 41 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 1 carrier moved from 44 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 1 destroyer moved from 37 Sea Zone to 42 Sea Zone 1 battleship moved from 44 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 1 fighter moved from 43 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 aaGun and 3 infantry moved from Anhwe to Hunan 1 mech_infantry moved from Kiangsu to Hunan 2 infantry moved from Chahar to Anhwe 4 infantry moved from Jehol to Anhwe 1 artillery and 1 infantry moved from Kiangsu to Anhwe 2 infantry moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 marine moved from Japan to 6 Sea Zone 1 submarine moved from 6 Sea Zone to 5 Sea Zone 1 fighter and 1 tactical_bomber moved from 25 Sea Zone to 6 Sea Zone 1 battleship, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 2 infantry, 1 marine and 1 transport moved from 6 Sea Zone to 36 Sea Zone 2 infantry and 1 marine moved from 36 Sea Zone to French Indo China 1 fighter moved from Japan to French Indo China Place Units - Japanese 1 carrier and 1 destroyer placed in 6 Sea Zone 1 infantry placed in Japan 1 armour, 1 artillery and 1 mech_infantry placed in French Indo China 1 artillery and 2 infantry placed in Kiangsu Turn Complete - Japanese Japanese collect 55 PUs; end with 55 PUs Objective Japanese 6 Home Islands: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 3 PUs; end with 58 PUs Objective Japanese 4 Control Dutch East Indies: Japanese met a national objective for an additional 5 PUs; end with 63 PUsCombat Hit Differential Summary :
British : 0.67 French : -0.33 ANZAC : -0.67 Americans : -0.33 UK_Pacific : 0.33 Japanese : 0.17 -
@simon33 said in oysteilo (Allies+9) vs Simon33 (Axis) BM3:
Aww man, I stuffed up. One of those planes didn’t have a landing space. Maybe I will just kill one as punishment?
ehhh, sorry, but I kind of think you have too. Most likely I wil return the “favour” during usa
-
hmmmm. I am considering to attack 41 sea sone with 1 fighter to kill your transport
I am not sure what the implications are. Can I simply just crash the fighter? Or do I have to move carrier to 57 sea zone?
For an attck to be allowed you need to have a potential landing spot. I dont think it says I have to use it
Do you know?
-
You can’t intentionally crash the fighter.
-
Pac rules, p21, 2nd last para:
“You must have a carrier move, remain in place, or be
mobilized (new carriers only) to pick up a fighter or
tactical bomber that would end its noncombat movement in
a sea zone. You can’t deliberately move an air unit out of
range of a potential safe landing space.” -
That’s why I asked what you wanted me to do after Japan’s turn.
-
i did not understand your question after japans turn
Well, so it is ok to attack a fleet with 1 sub against a bunch of defenders (say 10 destroyers, 10 carriers and 20 fighters) and assume you will win this battle and in nc move in a carrier to land a fighter exactely in this sea zone? This is a potential safe landing space, isnt it? and hence this move is legal, but in real life the fighter does not have a safe landing space
I read the rules this way: you must have a potential safe landing space for the move to be legal
I have that, but it does not say I have to land on that spot. I agree, if there is no potential safe landing landing space, then the move is not legal.
-
Ok, but even if the sub dies and CV can’t move to SZ41, the CV and fighter can still move to SZ57 and must do so. As per the rule I quoted.
Now if I had blocked SZ55 you would be under no obligation to attack it providing you attacked SZ42. In that case no NCM would be possible and you could then crash the fighter because you had no choice.
-
I’m pretty sure there’s no way you can get that TT without it costing you a CV+ftr.
-
Similarly with the SZ43 one.
-
@simon33 said in oysteilo (Allies+9) vs Simon33 (Axis) BM3:
Ok, but even if the sub dies and CV can’t move to SZ41, the CV and fighter can still move to SZ57 and must do so. As per the rule I quoted.
Now if I had blocked SZ55 you would be under no obligation to attack it providing you attacked SZ42. In that case no NCM would be possible and you could then crash the fighter because you had no choice.
what if you had blocked all sea zones in the same way, then the attack is not legal in any way according to you?, what are the criterias then a 10% win chance or a 90% win chance?
I am not saying you are incorrect. I am just confused. I am requesting a rulig!
@Panther , can you rule this? Please look at the file and conversation from end of japan.
If I attack the transport in sumatra sea sone with a fighter, do I have to move carrier to 57?
alternatively, how does it play out if all of 42, 45 and 55 are massivly blocked for this move?
-
Ok, but the rule I quoted doesn’t clear it up for you?
If I had blocked 42, 45 and 55, you could have attacked 41 with a plane only if you attacked either SZ55 or SZ42. Attacking SZ42 if SZ55 is attacked is not needed because the CV doesn’t need to reach SZ41, only SZ57. Similarly if you attack SZ42 and SZ45, your CV can move SZ54->SZ46->SZ45->SZ42 in theory.
Similarly with SZ43. You could attack SZ45 in that scenario because the CV only needs to reach SZ44.
In the scenario in this game, you could expend a sub to attack SZ42 and attack both undefended TTs but it still costs a CV because it has to move to catch one of the planes.
I feel I’ve covered all the scenarios.
-
@simon33 said in oysteilo (Allies+9) vs Simon33 (Axis) BM3:
Ok, but the rule I quoted doesn’t clear it up for you?
If I had blocked 42, 45 and 55, you could have attacked 41 with a plane only if you attacked either SZ55 or both SZ42 & SZ45. Attacking SZ42 if SZ55 is attacked is not needed because the CV doesn’t need to reach SZ41, only SZ57. Similarly if you attack SZ42 and SZ45, your CV can move SZ54->SZ46->SZ45->SZ42 in theory.
Similarly with SZ43. You could attack SZ45 in that scenario because the CV only needs to reach SZ44.
In the scenario in this game, you could expend a sub to attack SZ42 and attack both undefended TTs but it still costs a CV because it has to move to catch one of the planes.
I feel I’ve covered all the scenarios.
Slight correction in the bolded bit.
-
maybe I was a little unclear. (at panther and simon33)
I want to attack the transport in 41 with an american plane from 54 and do not want to sacrifice the carrier. In this scenario the potential possible landing spots are sz 57 and 42 (and some unlikely sea sones, disregard what previously mentioned)
- Clear sea sone 42, unlikely in this situation
- move carrier to 57 and land there
I am questioning if I have to move my carrier to 57, BECAUSE, assuming all of 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 57 and 58 (potential landing spots) were heavily blocked (like 42) then I think a legel move is to attack 52 with ONE sub and hope for a miracle because the rule says you need a potential landing spot. In any case I feel I have that, but the rule does not say it is illegal to crash a plane if you have a landing spot and choose not to use it… OR?
-
@oysteilo said in oysteilo (Allies+9) vs Simon33 (Axis) BM3:
I think a legel move is to attack 52 with ONE sub and hope for a miracle because the rule says you need a potential landing spot. In any case I feel I have that, but the rul
its impossible to get everything right
I think a legel move is to attack 42 with ONE sub and hope for a miracle because the rule says you need a potential landing spot. In any case I feel I have that, but the rul
-
The rule seems clear to me that you have to move the cv to sz57, regardless of whether sz42 is attacked or not.
@simon33 said in oysteilo (Allies+9) vs Simon33 (Axis) BM3:
Pac rules, p21, 2nd last para:
“You must have a carrier move, remain in place, or be
mobilized (new carriers only) to pick up a fighter or
tactical bomber that would end its noncombat movement in
a sea zone. You can’t deliberately move an air unit out of
range of a potential safe landing space.” -
@simon33 said in oysteilo (Allies+9) vs Simon33 (Axis) BM3:
Ok, but even if the sub dies and CV can’t move to SZ41, the CV and fighter can still move to SZ57 and must do so. As per the rule I quoted.
Now if I had blocked SZ55 you would be under no obligation to attack it providing you attacked SZ42. In that case no NCM would be possible and you could then crash the fighter because you had no choice.
I guess this is correct Simon33, but still I would like to have this verified as it puzzles me.
- If all sea zones are blocked then crashing the plane is OK, because you lost the battle where the carrier was supposed to move and hence the carrier cant move there. This is ok even if you have no realistic chance of winning that battle
- In this case there is no need for a sea battle to clear the way for the carrier and hence the fighter has to be picked up
Hmm, what if I had two fighters doing the same thing going in different directions and just one carrier. Can I do that? In this scenario one fighter will have to crash
I guess the quoted rule indicates that the plane must be picked up:
“You must have a carrier move, remain in place, or be
mobilized (new carriers only) to pick up a fighter or
tactical bomber that would end its noncombat movement in
a sea zone. You can’t deliberately move an air unit out of
range of a potential safe landing space.”Now, English is not my first language so maybe I am missing something here, I dont think this clearly says that you have to pick up the fighter, all it says is, you cant move an air unit out of range if there is no possible landing spot. I have that landing spot. Back to point 1 above, if all zones are blocked with a billion ships and you attack those billion ships with a single sub you have no realistic chance of winning, then I don’t see how you fulfill the quoted paragraph above as you have no carrier move remain in place. And i don’t see how this is any different than just crashing the plane as long as you have a carrier. You simply choose to move the carrier somewhere else
-
@Krieghund I am asking krieghund as well about this, although I think I know the answer… still could be good to get a rationale for why it is allowed as soon as the zones as blocked
sorry for all the mess and all the wording
Suggested Topics
