Avoiding Infantry blobs. Change their Cost to 3.2!

@Grinchveld FYI. There are many TripleA games and variants that change unit costs or revamp the unit roster all together. Some make infantry more expensive and some even make them cheaper. Generally its easier to keep units with pretty even costs so its easier to track so if you wanted less infantry then doing something like 2 inf for 7 IPC (3.5 per inf) would probably be reasonable and avoid all the side tracking.

@redrum said in Avoiding Infantry blobs. Change their Cost to 3.2!:

@Grinchveld FYI. There are many TripleA games and variants that change unit costs or revamp the unit roster all together. Some make infantry more expensive and some even make them cheaper. Generally its easier to keep units with pretty even costs so its easier to track so if you wanted less infantry then doing something like 2 inf for 7 IPC (3.5 per inf) would probably be reasonable and avoid all the side tracking.

This is correct. Inf are to strong with the d6 system. The 3.5 would at least be better if anything as mentioned. Also have it where you need 2 pieces to block instead of one.
With the d6 system you going to have 3 pieces that are just not right for C A and D.

Or make Inf A@1 and D@1 but an Art boosts 1 Inf on A and D +1.

@Grinchveld TripleA only support integer costs right now though you can do 2/3/4 for X to somewhat simulate decimal costs which is what many maps do. And yeah you could do like 10 for 3.

You can also just increase all of the income on a map by 10x and leave unit production limited to what is now and then have more refined units costs for example 32 for inf, 40 for art, 50 for tank, etc.

@Grinchveld Yeah, its all essentially the same thing just slightly different ways of presenting it. In my experience, most people hate fractions/decimals. My guess is 2 reasons: 1. they kind of appear less clean and more complex then integers, 2. many people really struggle with even simple fraction/decimal math.

@grinchveld

I’ve seen people suggest using d12 for Axis & Allies; I assume that the idea would be to change the infantry defense value to be 3 (i.e. 25% on a d12, down from the 33.333…% on a d6) That way it’s easy to keep any other attack/defense values at the same percent, by simply doubling the number you score a hit on.

Personally I’ve wondered if using d10 might be helpful, in some way(?) If you’re thinking that infantry need to cost 3.2 IPCs, then it might make sense to keep the cost at 3, but have their defense value as “3 on a d10” (so, 30% instead of 33.333…%) Would that have the desired effect?

Depends. I use d12 and what it mainly allows is to add more different pieces and/or make other normal game pieces a bit better all around for costs with values.

I remember a while back, Baron and somebody else, YG maybe ? were big on a D8 system. Idk if anything ever came of it

Yes I was involved in that d8 game. Some guys weren’t happy with inf being to weak on defense @2.

Another, even bolder way to avoid Infantry blobs - hard limits.

Let us build a system where infantry stats are the same, but a power can only have so many of them. I would think that using the same number for all powers would not work right, so different levels it is. The following numbers are just for example, using A&A 1942, 2nd Ed. In this case, I will take starting infantry and gave the allies x3 and the axis x2. This is most likely not the best system, just the one I came up with.

USSR: 21x3=63
Germ: 29x2=58
Japan: 25x2=50
Unit.K: 15x3=45
USofA: 14x3=42

Whether this is better system or worse would need to be tested. But I think it would give that rare synergy between historically appropriate and game balancing.

-Midnight_Reaper

@general-6-stars

I think there might be value in doing a mixed d6/d10 system
(Maybe have ground & air units use d10 for defense and d6 for attack, with ships being the inverse)

If I were going strictly with d10 (just to keep it simple, and avoid potential confusion) I think it’d probably be something like this…
Battle board would have the following numbers:
attack values: 1/4/5/7
defense values: 1/3/4/7

(A&A Classic units, att/def)
inf 1/3
arm 5/4
ftr 4/7 (jets 5/8?)
bmb (7/1)

trn (0/1)
sub (4/3) (super 5/4?)
CV (1/4)
BB (7/7)

Edit: if anything, you might boost the inf/CV attack to 2, especially in a system where you’re mixing in artillery bonuses as well.

@the-janus yea i’d like to see d12 for air battles. Bombers only hit at 1 in 12

Ok. Here’s d6 and d10 stats by what I go by.
I will post Janus d10 suggestions and then my adjustments.
G40 d6 stats
Inf A1/2 2.67/5.33 D2 5.33
Art A2 3.00 D2 3.00 boost inf, mech +1
Mech A1/2 1.50/3.00 D2 3.00
Tank A3 2.00 D3 2.00
Tac A3 .60 D3 .60
Fig A3 .72 D4 .96
Bomb A4 .67 D1 .17

BB A4 1.26 D4 1.26 2 hits
CR A3 .50 D3 .50
DD A2 .70 D2 .70
SS A2 1.33 D1 .67
AC A0 0.0 D2 .49 2 hits
TR AD0

D10 suggestions plus rest of g40 in d10
Inf A1/2 1.60/3.20 D3 4.80
Art A3 2.70 D3 2.70 boost inf,mech +1
Mech A1/2 .90/1.80 D3 2.70
Tank A5 2.00 D6 2.40
Tac A4 .48 D4 .48
Fig A5 .72 D6 .86
Bomb A7 .70 D1 .10

BB A7 1.33 D7 1.33 2 hits
CR A5 .50 D5 .50
DD A3 .68 D3 .68
SS A4 1.60 D3 1.20
AC A0 0.0 D4 .59 2 hits
TR A0 0.0 D1 .29

So I go by mostly the decimal number based on if I getting my money’s worth based on cost and AD values. Like as always in games the Cruiser Is weaker than the destroyer. Tacs are also weak.
If you look at the d10 values for inf + being boost 1 per art is pretty good for attacking. . Inf still a bit strong on defense. You could go to D2 and it goes down from 4.80 to 3.20.
So you would probably maybe need to buy more artillery in game.
Other suggestion to get your moneys worth is my suggestions.
Tac A5 .60 D4 .48
Bomb A7 same. D2 .20
CR C10 A5 .72 D5 .72

Sub pretty strong.
Maybe go with A3 1.20 D2 .80

Not a fan of sub being cheaper than destroyers since destroyers were the naval fodder. IMO

Janus. If u want can discuss this further in another thread and I can post what my d12 values and costs are and ideas. Other wise need to test inf changes. Most guys I know argue that inf is the main fodder and with numbers the defense stats are close based on 40000 to 60000 per Inf.
That is another topic.

@midnight_reaper said in Avoiding Infantry blobs. Change their Cost to 3.2!:

Another, even bolder way to avoid Infantry blobs - hard limits.

Let us build a system where infantry stats are the same, but a power can only have so many of them. I would think that using the same number for all powers would not work right, so different levels it is. The following numbers are just for example, using A&A 1942, 2nd Ed. In this case, I will take starting infantry and gave the allies x3 and the axis x2. This is most likely not the best system, just the one I came up with.

USSR: 21x3=63
Germ: 29x2=58
Japan: 25x2=50
Unit.K: 15x3=45
USofA: 14x3=42

Whether this is better system or worse would need to be tested. But I think it would give that rare synergy between historically appropriate and game balancing.

-Midnight_Reaper

Yes Midnight I’ve played 2 other ways in games where you have cap buys for inf at factories and a limit per turn buy per country. Think close to this stat. Can buy only per turn.
G-11
J-7
I-4
F-3
C-6
UK-5
US-8
R-12

But of course play test

@general-6-stars said in Avoiding Infantry blobs. Change their Cost to 3.2!:

Yes I was involved in that d8 game. Some guys weren’t happy with inf being to weak on defense @2.

If 25% is too weak when it’s “2 on a d8” then I have to imagine it’s still too weak when it’s “3 on a d12”… right?

That’d be my basic justification for going with “3 on a d10” – it’s a decrease from “2 on a d6” but not all the way down to that 25% mark.

You had mentioned that a d10 sub @ A4/D3 seemed “pretty strong”; did the rest seem ok at least?

@the-janus said in Avoiding Infantry blobs. Change their Cost to 3.2!:

@general-6-stars said in Avoiding Infantry blobs. Change their Cost to 3.2!:

Yes I was involved in that d8 game. Some guys weren’t happy with inf being to weak on defense @2.

If 25% is too weak when it’s “2 on a d8” then I have to imagine it’s still too weak when it’s “3 on a d12”… right?

That’d be my basic justification for going with “3 on a d10” – it’s a decrease from “2 on a d6” but not all the way down to that 25% mark.

You had mentioned that a d10 sub @ A4/D3 seemed “pretty strong”; did the rest seem ok at least?

Ya on your 3 for d12 is to weak.

Rest stuff was pretty good. Just my suggestions above were if playing with Tacs and cruisers.

The sub at a cost of 6 with A4 D3 May get spammed.
Down below is what I use in my game with d12
If your interested.

https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/assets/uploads/files/1639223202822-germany-setup-chart-4.1xcf.pdf

FWIW My context is A&A Classic (IMO transports function as the naval fodder/intermediate surface ship in that game) where subs are still the cheapest unit, but rather than 6, they cost 8 – the same price as a transport.