Naval modifications questions and ideas.

@buttersurge
Nice work. Any info on the scenario set up or homebrew rules?

Any land assault from a sea zone with neutral ships in same sea zone gets to defend against the attacking navy. Then you can attack Oslo from sea if trannys survive.
If you attack Oslo you want to attack from Finland and with German airborne [also fort doesnt get to defend] so when you capture Oslo the neutral ships are rolled for and become scuttle or UK or German ships.

Wasn’t sure where to put this, but I decided to get some input from the community. IL gave me the idea after the discussion on operation SEELOWE, which is still slowly building up for the expected invasion this August.

Any ways, ill post the rules I have here, which are reinterpreted Luftwaffe rules with some optional add ons. ANy feed back is appreciated.

Plans are
Cold War scenario
What If game play (bit of it is already in place.)
More in-depth rules.

Thanks again for any feed back.
Version 1.1
Spelling Corrections
Rule Changes
YB40 now has a penalty to use.
Aircraft now have Targets
Hybrid Bomber added (includes penalty)

Planned In Next Update
How to Attack Allied forces.
Ground units expanded?
AA Battalions may be modified (May add to)
Allied Units Cost
German Units Cost

-Objectives
German Luftwaffe
Don’t allow 9+ cities to be bombed.
Allied Air forces
Bomb 12 or more cities
Tie
10/11 cities bombed

-Parts List
Needed
Aircraft Markers
See Aircraft List

AA Battalion Markers
See Aircraft List

Fuel Markers 60
Bomb Markers 60

Fuel Dumps

Additional
Damage Markers 60

*No suicide missions can be launched
As in launching fighters on missions that will take them farther than they can go as indicated.

-Turn Limit
20
Turns consist of two parts
German Missions launched
Allied Missions launched

Following Subject to change
All aircraft of the same type must be aloft at once. This is due to keep tracking easier, all 109s are aloft and time tracked at the same time. This avoids having to track 5 or 6 aircraft types at once, then multiply that by 10+ per plane launched at different times.
Alternative. Numbers assigned to each plane. Then there would be a fuel token for that plane with a matching number.
EX…
Me109 Number 1
Me109 Fuel Count 1
And so on and forth for each plane.

-Bombers
They do not have a fuel counter, as the bombers head directly to targets. They launch and get to targets on the same turn.
Each defender they go across fires at them. Any suriving bomber ends its turn with the bombing run.
On the next turn (the players turn who launched the mission) The bomber then returns to base (or regress line) with the defender firing when possible.

-Aircraft Types
Fighters
Equipped with fuel tanks. Attack on a 4 or less.
Heavy Fighters
Attack on a 3 or less
Bombers
Bomb on a 3 or less, defend on a 2 or less.
Intruders
Intruders are used in secret missions (Explained later)
Intruders attack on 4 or less. They can be used to attack refueling aircraft (at airbases) or other targets. They can be intercepted and defend on a 2.

-Target Types
Fuel Depots
German fuel depots are used to store fuel. The fuel is then distributed to surrounding airbases. Attacking this will hammper German air missions to defend the Fartherland.
Airbases
These are vital to the effort. attacking them keep down mission launch capabilities and refuel. They also reapir aircraft (current wip)
Cities
Cities are the main objective. They contain the factories that feed the German Luftwaffe. Weather your bombing the Me109 ball bearing plant, or the Messerschmidt plant, they are your tagets. At a later time, they will have a larger impact other than victory points. Ideas currently include loss of reinforcements, fuel.
Also, cities defend on a 2 (AA guns. Airbases and other targets have this capability. Expansion to this will include AA battalions that can be positioned at certain locations.
At the moment, the game is very Allied favored, though this will be offset with German technology advancements. I plan on two modes, historical (units are used depending on the time frame.) The next version is Alternative Timelines.
In this mode, both players will gain tech points to spend. There will be a research tree, to avoid players going into Jet ages (of thats what you want.) This mode will have a extended time limit to 40 turns to allow full tech up.

-Reinforcements
-Repairs
At the moment repairs to targets are made using fuel tokens (representing trucks carrying material to repair. This can be used to restart the production of the German forces.

-Combat
Basics
AA
AA guns can fire at all aircraft. They attack on a 2.
They can target units at will. They can chose to attack anything they wish.
Fighters
Fighters can attack all aircraft, but not targets.
Fighters have two fuel tokens.
They have a base fuel (no tanks) and tank fuel.
At any time they can drop fuel tanks to attack at a normal attack. With fuel tanks they attack on a -1 die. (Example. With fuel tanks, instead of attacking on 4, they attack on a 3.)
Heavy Fighters
They attack normal fighters at a -1 die (represents less agility) but attack bombers on a higher die roll.
Intruders
Attack any targets at any time. Can pick to attack fuel reserves, landed aircraft or returning aircraft.
Expanded
AA battalions
Available only to the defender at the moment
They start off in cites with factories. They can be used in conjunction with AA fortifications (They add a die to defending AA.) Alternative they can be used alone, moving at 2 hexes a time. They use one fuel for each 2 turns. They can be attacked by certain aircraft which will be listed later.
-Aircraft included
Key
T- Tank Movement
M- Base Movement
TRG- Targets

-Allied Aircraft List

Fighters
P-40
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

P-39
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

Spitfire
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

Hurricane
T
M
TRG All Aircraft and Ground

Heavy Fighters
P-38
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

Mosquito
T
M
TRG Aircraft and Airbases, Ground Units

Beaufighter
T
M
TRG Aircraft

Bombers
All Defend against aircraft
B-17
M
TRG All Ground

B-24
M
TRG All Ground

B-25
M
TRG All Ground

A-26
M
TRG All Ground, Shipping

Lancaster
M
TRG All Ground

Halifax
M
TRG All Ground

-Luftwaffa
Fighters
Me-109
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

Me-163
M
TRG All Aircraft

Me-262
M
TRG All Aircraft

Fw-190
T
M
*TRG All Aircraft

Heavy Fighters
Me-110
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

Me-210
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

Ar-234
T
M
TRG All Aircraft

Bombers
TBA

Intruders
TBA

AA Battalions
M
TRG All Aircraft

Special Aircraft
Allied
YB-40
The YB40 gunship can be added as a escort for bombers. Doing this makes it so that bombers have fighter die rolls all the way to the target. At the moment there is no way to simulate the 40s short comings (reduced speed due to weapons and ammo) However, the bomber that is converted to this role can no longer bomb.
Unlimited
Targets All Aircraft

B-29
Acts as a normal bomber, but only able to be intercepted by SAMS and certain aircraft. Uses Fuel when Allied Fuel is implimented.
Is limited to 4 aircraft at a time.
Targets Aircraft able to reach it

B17/24 Hybrid
The Hybrid is a B24 with a B17 nose. This allows you to have B17 pilots covnert to the new aircraft easier. Defends and attacks as a B24. Penalty On your reinforcement phase, you lose a B17 and B24 to gain the Hybrid. However, it costs less to upgrade a Existing B17 unit to this aircraft.

German
SAMS
The Germans had experimental SAMS. In this version they became operation before the war ended. The sams attack  one hex around them, but are only mobile at one hex at a time. In addition they use a fuel token to launch. Be wise, as a attack on a SAM before launch can cost you the token as well as the SAM.
Limited to 3 Battalions
Targets Bombers

Tribefugel
Acts as a heavy fighter
Moves has a range of 5. May land anywhere but must be fueled before each use.
Unlimited
Targets All Aircraft

-WIP
The Current list is work in progress
At the moment Im playing with a map of Europe, using 1 inch to determine movements.
Targets are at the moment player determined (Solo play will be implemented with target cards

-Example
For Allies
Allied-Target Berlin Aircraft Factory
German Defense 4 Me-109s and AA
Ignore and draw another card if target is destroyed (Applies to factories only)

For Germans
Allied- Target Berlin
Allied Force 4 B-17s and 2 P-51s
Germans Any available forces to defend.

-Mission Types
Bomber mission
Simple. Bomb target you have selected or told. Targets damaged by missions receive one bomb marker. 4 Markers render target useless. At the moment there is no production loss unless its bombed 4 times.
Intruder missions
The Attacking player selects a target. at the start of the German turn, the allied player informs that a intruder mission will be done. At the start of the allied turn, the intruder mission is launched. (WIP)
Intercept Mission
Missions are launched depending on the situation. Allied missions cards determine the German intercept missions (Solo Allied)
The same goes for solo German play (Allied attack Missions).

-Future Expansions.
Im still incorporating the Luftwaffe game rules into this.
The Idea is to create a free version that you need to incorporate other things into the game. At some point in time I may do Units that will be free to print.
If you like this idea, I recommend you look for Luftwaffe, as it will undoubtedly be better play tested than this.
This work is free to use and distribute freely. At no time may this be sold for profit.
By sp111kg

Recommended Parts
AnA parts
HBG
Pico Armor
Field Marshal Games
Anything in 1/600 scale for fighters.
Any parts you can scavenge.
Hand Drawn chips

Okay gang,

Paul and I are going to start two separate projects from this point forward. Paul will do his best to preserve the info from this thread as it pertains to his game which you can follow here:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=24848.0

As far as my game (simplified version using more or less OOB pieces) you can follow it in this thread:

http://www.axisandallies.org/forums/index.php?topic=24875.0

Thank you everyone and we both encourage full participation and idea sharing in both our ventures. As Paul says, we want to have MORE FUN!

I will start refunding this week. If you have not been refunded by Sunday, please email me.
Thanks for your support, maybe next time!

This is my first shot at an expanded naval system that I’m working on.

Note: Since different dice types are needed, I’m using the following notation for a shorthand: the type of dice (d6, d12, d20) etc. is immediately preceded by an “at” sign, a @ and the number you need to roll for a hit comes first.  Thus a ranking of a “3” on a d6 would be written as a 3@6, which is really the same as a “10” on a d20 (a 10@20) or a 6 on a d12 (a 6@12)

A. What you need:

1. To implement it, you would probably need a couple of things.  First, after carefully comparing all the options, I decided to base it on a d20, primarily, so you’ll need a 20-sider or two.  (They’re not hard to find, btw, in case you’re not familiar with them.)

2. Secondly, you’ll need a much wider array of ships, particularly the large ships, battleships, carriers, and possibly cruisers.  I have some few Skytrex & Navwar 1/3000 metals and Panzersciffe 1/2400 plastics.  After comparing them, I’m probably going to go with the latter, though note that you’ll need a pretty big board for them.  For the 1/3000, you could probably get away with the oob AA40 combined board or the AA50 board, but for 1/2400 you’ll probably need something the size of the TWG board or the larger version of the new GW1939 board (which you can get from HBG)

B. Key Rules:

1. Gunnery: Battleships and Cruisers each have 2 attacks, while Destroyers have only1.

a. Destroyer/ Secondary Armaments: 1 attack represents the secondary armament, which is roughly the same attack rank as that of a destroyer, which makes sense as guns that were the primary armament on a destroyer were often the same ones as those used as the secondary armament on a battleship or cruiser.  Thus battleship/ cruiser secondaries attack and defend (both) at a 7@20.  (To save time, however, you could also roll them with a 6-sider as a 2@6 or on a 12-sider as a 4@12, which allows you to roll both primary and secondary simultaneously, since a BB primary armament would always be rolled on a 20-sider.)  Destroyers have only 1 attack, at this same ranking.

b. Cruiser Primaries: A “standard” cruiser’s primary armament would be a 10@20, which also allows for much flexibility, as a 3@6 or 6@12 has the exact same 50% chance to hit, so any of these three could be used as a substitute.  A “standard” cruiser is defined as either a “heavy” cruiser, a “CA,” which technically means a cruiser with guns larger than 6” (usually 8”) or a “large light” cruiser, which was actually nearly as big as a heavy cruiser and carried a larger # of 6” guns.  Gunnery experts debated on the relative merits of these two types of “treaty” cruisers, but the rule of thumb is that with two cruisers with equivalent armor protection, 8 8” guns are roughly equal to 12 6” guns in firepower, all else being equal.

c. Battleship Primaries: This same relative power rule of thumb carries forward to battleships, in that 2-3 more guns of a given size roughly adds the firepower of the same # of guns an inch or so larger.  Thus, a 10x12” BB would pack about the same punch as an 8x13” BB and a 12x12” BB would be about the same as an 8x14.” With this proviso in mind, a normal (8-9 gun) BB’s attack/defense ranking for its primary armament is the same as the inch diameter on a 20-sider.  Thus, an 8-9 gun 12” BB would roll for a 12@20 for its primary, a 14” gun BB at a 14@20, a 15” BB at a 15@20, and a 16” BB at a 16@20.  The super-BB Yamato would then attack/defend with its primary armament at an 18@20, making it a formidable foe indeed!

2. Hits a ship can take: DD’s and CA’s can still only take 1 hit.  Most BB’s can take 2, and a few of the largest, most powerful ones can take 3.  I haven’t yet decided, however, where the cut-off point for a “Super-BB” that can take 3 hits would be.  The Yamato is a definite yes, along with the American Montana, its never-built direct American competitor of roughly the same size.  I’m leaning toward giving the 45,000 ton + BB’s the same 3-hit “Super-BB” status.  This would include the American Iowa, British Vanguard and German H-Class.  The next level down would be 40,000 tonners, the German Bismark and Italian Vittorio, which I’m leaning toward not giving the status, because if I do a very good argument can be made that the American South Dakota, British KGV and French Richelieu were just as formidable, despite being more faithful to the treaty limitations demanding that BB’s not exceed 35,000 tons… If I open it up this far, nearly all the original “standard” BB’s in the game would be 3-hit “supers.”

I still have many more thoughts in terms under-sea/submarine/ torpedo warfare and air/ carrier warfare, but I’ll save those thoughts for now, as this is already a long post, so I’ll send this out for any who are interested to take a look, digest and share their thoughts.

tank #2 = IS-2….naaa release to late in the war to get a real impact.

I don’t know where on earth you guys are getting this: it’s simply not true!  (Are you guys still confusing the IS-2 with the IS-3?)  The KV series was off of the battlefied for the second half of the war, for the most part, and replaced by the IS-2!  More IS-2’s were produced than either KV-1 or KV-2’s (or stop-gap measures such as the KV-85 for that matter) and the Soviet counter-offensive that really won the war on Germany was spearheaded by twice as many IS-2’s as Germany ever produced Tigers!

I purchased Ralph Boerke’s Large European Map a couple of years ago, and I kept in touch with him over that time, e-mailing questions I had about the game, interpretations of rules, etc.  I sent an e-mail to him several months ago but never received a response.  His web site also appears to no longer exist.  Does anyone know what has happened to him? From his e-mails, I know he has been very sick for the past several years–-and I do not know if he has taken a turn for the worse.  If someone has information about him, please respond to this post.  Thank you.